Introducing the Planetary Vanguards

Haha! Why do you think something like this gets created? They'll promote their own agenda whilst shouting down dissenting voices, especially those who dare to criticise Uber in any way.

Got some questions for you guys:

1: Does this Vanguard group have a central leadership figure?
If yes, how is this leader chosen and what does he do?
2: Do the Vanguards have a spokeperson?
3: Do the Vanguards have a subforum or special place?
4: Do the Vanguards have moderating powers on the forums or elsewhere?
5: Are the Vanguards compensated by Uber in any way?
6: What happens when a group of forum members gangs up on a Vanguard?
7: What happens when a group of Vanguards gangs up on a forum member?
8: How are complaints about Vanguards treated?
9: What is the procedure of someone being kicked out of the Vanguards?
10: Are the Vanguards allowed to have clantags or any other signs of affiliation on any of their profiles?
11: How will the Vanguards respond if a large majority of the community wants their organisation disbanded?
12: How will the Vanguards respond if Uber wants them disbanded?
13: In your posts you stated that:

Are there any systems in place that insure that it's actually the will of the community, and not what the Vanguards think the community should want. Hypothetical example: A large group of people on the forums want units in the game to have active abilities. the Vanguard disagrees, do you still honestly report this to the devs or twist it to say that only a minorty wants this?


Note: Simply stating: "we will be good", isn't sufficient of an answer. If the answer to a lot of these questions is: "we don't know yet" then I suggest you guys go back to the drawing board and resubmit your group idea to the community when it's actually finished.

You are talking like little kids,
... Mum I want it D: muuuummmm...give me vanguard ... Even if you aren't a vanguard, you still make good post and helps the community, this is the important thing, not the light blue thing under your name... Relax

I get this much. But honestly Why are you guys keeping it sort of secret in terms of of how you guys got the job in the first place?

If you can explain this in just better detail, I wouldn't have any quips. Brian brought up some points but never got answered. The devil is in the details here.

I just want to know the "clear explanation" that you vanguards are going to use when addressed and how you got the position and how you obtain it. "I" don't want to explain it as they sent an email to Uber and they just gave them access, i'm sure that isn't how it happened but so far i'm as lost as Brian.


I understand why Brian would be slightly off-put since he does his best to enforce uber policies and occasionally inform new users of what features currently exist. (Opinion) He can be blunt at times, but he means well in the end (Opinion). He is doing what you guys are doing and also talking to the dev's to ask certain questions for the FAQ that he made [not sure with or without suggestion].

Personally I just want a little banner under my name just so I can look cool, sort of like Planetary regular, or maybe "the dude abides". I'm not vanguard material, I just want to have a cool color with my name.

1: Does this Vanguard group have a central leadership figure?
1.) No

2: Do the Vanguards have a spokeperson?
2.) No

3: Do the Vanguards have a subforum or special place?
3.) We use private conversations with each other

4: Do the Vanguards have moderating powers on the forums or elsewhere?
4.) No

5: Are the Vanguards compensated by Uber in any way?
5.) No

6: What happens when a group of forum members gangs up on a Vanguard?
6.) The same that happens when a group of people "gang up" on anyone else: It's decided by the moderators/uber who is "right". If gang up means they attack a person personally it's gonna be bad for the attacker.

7: What happens when a group of Vanguards gangs up on a forum member?
7.) Same as 6.

8: How are complaints about Vanguards treated?
8.) I'd advise you to complain to any moderator or directly a Uber via pm. Also feel free to send a pm to vanguard members directly if you feel one of them is a problem for you.

9: What is the procedure of someone being kicked out of the Vanguards?
9.) We dont have a set prodcedure. But if valid complaints are made about the behavior of a vanguard uber has all the power they need to get rid of them. Also the vanguards manage themselves, so if a single vanguard behaves bad the other vanguards can kick him.

10: Are the Vanguards allowed to have clantags or any other signs of affiliation on any of their profiles?
10.) Yes, why not?

11: How will the Vanguards respond if a large majority of the community wants their organisation disbanded?
11.) Disband

12: How will the Vanguards respond if Uber wants them disbanded?
12.) Disband

13: Are there any systems in place that insure that it's actually the will of the community, and not what the Vanguards think the community should want.
13.) It's not like the developers wont read the forums anymore, they would notice. Also we are 14 people with different ideas and opinions.

EDIT:
More answer coming.

Also thanks for the constructive criticism.

EDIT2:

But that's what happened. We contacted Uber a while ago stating concerns about the state of communication. After a while of discussion and a very positive reaction from Uber to our concerns in terms of communication-problems the concept of the vanguards resulted.

1, no we work as a team
2, we are all spokesman
3, no
4, no
5, we are compensated with information to be given the community, and listen intently on the communicative we give them from the community.
6, we cry.. lol
7, NOT GONNA HAPPEN ON MY WATCH......
8, as useful insight on how we should handle this withiin the community.
9, pull leg back, then swing leg , when foot contacts behind sending person flying from grooup,, THEY HAVE BEEN OFFICIALLY KICKED.. *Joke*
10, i guess so, most of us are clan members
11, we disband
12, we bisband
13, our intentions have always been to bring Uber the wants of the most popular sought after answers in the forums..

ninja'd by colin..

What's up, FXelix? I knew I'd see you around! Also, what he said. Good contributions remain good, and if this vanguard thing facilitates a better game, does the popularity contest really matter? I think the people who put in real time to contribute are already seen and recognized as such. Props to all, I say.

Mostly, I just wanted to shout out to FXelix. AK TO OZ.

Something else to keep in mind, Uber is still fully in control of PA, the idea that we will be able to 'shape' PA to our own liking is more or less impossible. Uber won't do anything unless it's in line with thier vision of PA. While it is possible that we could shape the information we feed to Uber it doesn't change the above fact and even with as "few" people as we have involved now there are plenty of different opinions on many different topics, I doubt there will be more than a few instances where we all agree on everything regarding a specific topic, the Vanguard tag doesn't in any way shape our own opinions, they're the same as before thus they are varied. Add into that the idea that we are incorporating elements from everybody where applicable and you can see how even a single topic can have multiple opinions regarding it presented to Uber who are, as we are all aware, the actual game designers.

We explained that in the first post already;

As I mentioned earlier, this should still be very much considered a trial run and the program could change in any number of ways. It's not like this was some kind of brash decision on Uber's part to keep us quiet or anything either, this has been in the works for over 2 weeks and has caused several meetings involving Key Uber Staff. They feel it's at the very least worthwhile so we're going to give it our best!

We'd report what the community says, and our own thoughts and discussions as well. If you trusted in Uber before, you have no reason to NOT trust in them now either.

Also I would say if you have any issues with a Vanguard Member, the first step should be to contact a different Member first, as Said earlier we are more or less Autonomous with little direct oversight from Uber and I feel like many are wrongly assuming we're some kind of borg hivemind all sharing the same opinions, chances are if you guys feel that a Vanguard Member is acting 'out of line'(particularly when acting as a Vanguard) chances are at least one other person would agree with you. We want this to work for the same of the Game and Community surrounding it and given how Uber has put it's Faith in us directly to make this work, we'll do everything we can to make sure it works, even if it means cutting someone loose from the Group.

Mike

I'm not against the Idea of Vanguard members, I just want a one answer. I understand what Cola Colin wrote, but I had information that me and Brian are curious on still.

*did you email them just saying you want to help?*
from the answers I got, I'll believe this is what you did.

Again, i'm not arguing against the formation, it just seems isolated. Its different if Uber made a post on the forum on how they would like to better communicate with the people and were open to people offering suggestions.

It just sounds... weird. It would be nice if there would of been a formal application to join. I know what Cola said was straight forward in "your experience will speak for itself and you will be asked to join the ranks of vanguard for your quality posts. " I just wish it was more formal.

Neutrino hinted at it in his "Game status brain dump" post

Nov 25th

I guess its good that you can leave Uber Dev's from being preoccupied with responding to posts and have you vanguards just relay information to us forum goers.

I'm a little curious as to how the process works. Do the vanguards decide which threads have good reading material and flag or strike out posts?

Has uber given a list of topics that shouldn't be discussed until x feature arrives etc?

Do vanguards need to un-ignore members?

[quote="chronosoul,I just want to know the "clear explanation" that you vanguards are going to use when addressed and how you got the position and how you obtain it. "I" don't want to explain it as they sent an email to Uber and they just gave them access, i'm sure that isn't how it happened but so far i'm as lost as Brian.

...

Personally I just want a little banner under my name just so I can look cool, sort of like Planetary regular, or maybe "the dude abides". I'm not vanguard material, I just want to have a cool color with my name.[/quote]

Actually, yeah... that's kind of how it happened.
I knew some of the modders were going to release a pack, so I have been talking to some of the other guys via PM for quite some time now.
I have zero coding abilities and wanted to see if they were going to do UI mods at all and if I could help.

I think the concept is good.
Tt's pretty apparent that Uber needs help organizing suggestions and questions.
Somebody has to do it.


Which brings up the next point.... What if person-X doesn't "cut the mustard" so to speak.
What if a Vanguard is a general #&*@ on the forums, ego trips, rude to newbies and reflect poorly on the game and community?
After all, if the community is unruly, why would Uber listen to the feedback?
I honestly don't think anybody has thought that far in advance.
I presume a community member will either privately or publicly ask said-person to step down.
If that still doesn't work, the other Vanguards might ask them to leave.
Again, there is nothing formal.
You gotta remember, this is all a bit of a test and Uber is playing this by ear to see how it goes.


I am actually still unsure if I'm a good fit for the role.
I'm sometimes rather immature and rude. Sometimes I ask (read: demand ) a lot.
I think that reflects poorly on the community.

Last thing I want to do is ego trip and ruin a really promising next-gen RTS.
All I can do is promise to try my best.

Just to be clear guys, and to cut all the bull****.

Basically, the vanguards had a good idea. They presented the idea to Uber.

Uber gave the people who presented the idea to them the job.

The members didn't necessarily ask for it. They just said such a job should be present.

Let's cut them a little slack, yeah? Let them figure out their processes and so on. Let a smallish group do that as a pilot so they figure out what is going to happen, without having too many chefs spoiling the broth.

Let them suss stuff out for themselves and invite more members as needed.

I presume that the group isn't stupid, and either them, independent moderator, us or Uber will identify if they are too biased, if there isn't enough balance in users, if they are furthering their own interests too much and so on.

I really nerd out on the forums. I pretty much read everything.
I can't speak for the others, but if something is asking for "x-feature to come sooner", then they are probably thinking short-term. Regardless, I still read it and weigh the arguments. 9 times out of 10, the person is new to the forums and doesn't really understand we are in a true tradition beta. They are expecting CoD or Battlefield levels of polish where "beta" is actually just as mass market demo.
Still, people do make good points.
One of the best ones I have see is probably for Uber to focus on Full Roster before Balance.
There is no point for them to spin their wheels now to rebalance stuff when nobody knows what units the engine could handle.

Shouldn't be discussed? No? I don't think so....
(If it is true, then I haven't been paying very good attention ).


What do you mean by un-ignore members?
To the best of my knowledge, nobody is being ignored.

It's what I'm expect from this idea as main part of work. Devs have very limited time and many players (mainly not those who super active on forums) continue to ask many questions which is well known, e.g about performance, some in-game features, etc. Some trusted group for players might distribute answers to such topics more efficient that should save devs time.

One more thing. Since alpha started there was many people who communicate with Uber directly with some important questions and some public structure just make this communication more transparent.

Also Uber team include many pretty busy developers who work most of time or probably don't like forums too much. If we have official communication channel we can collect questions on specific part of game, choose best of them and then get answers from developers.

Culverin - forum has a follow/ignore feature.

I do not use it.

I imagine it allows you to just blanket block a user.

Hey,

Stupid point, but the color that was choosed chose ... picked for the names is killing my eyes and not very easy to see with the actual forum background. Maybe a little darker ?

The concept is also a good idea ! Should help the Uber team a lot !
I hope that we will still see the developers around, it's very enjoyable to be able to interact with them !

Thank-you
And yes that is how it happened..
I was not a grab for glory,we only sent a statement saying we need more useful avenue of communication both ways.

Oh, I see. I may be from the land of maple syrup, polar bears and maple leaves (aka Canada) I actually agree with the American ideal of checks and balances.
The Vanguards are supposed to keep the other Vanguards from doing something stupid.
And blocking wouldn't accomplish anything if the entire community is keeping the Vanguards in check.

The ball is in everybody's court.
If I start acting out or power tripping, please call me out.
I want the best for this game, and my epeen does not get a vote.

Again,
All I can do is relay the info you guys want addressed.
Your suggestions, your questions, your feedback.
You've seen me start a ton of UI threads, I'm an ideas guys.
The Vanguards aren't dumb, if I start getting out of line, I'll get a bit of this:

The developers will still be here as much as they have been, we are just helping spread their information,
while bringing the most relevant info to them.
It saves them hours of searching to find topics they can answer quickly and easily.

You're oversimplifying what happened, Yes, the initial point of contact was a group effort with the Basic intent of "we want improved communication" but as I said, it's wasn't like a decision was made off handedly and there was a lot of discussion both among Uber themselves and with us over the last few weeks. Like I said, there is still a long way to go in regards to getting this venture working fully and the information pipeline is still pretty rudimentary. We're hoping we get the chance to grow the group and even expand on our ability to help Uber out, but we gotta prove the concept first.

It's like Jon Said way back during one of the earlier Live Streams, slightly paraphrased maybe, but the gist of it was "If your making well thought out posts on the forums you are having an effect on the game" and that is by extension what we did, we put the effort into crafting a Communication/Proposal and Uber is recognizing that and giving us the chance to try and make it work for which we are very grateful.

Well it won't be any specific way, different topics could easily require different processes but I imagine it'll be less about focusing on specific threads/posts and more so compiling information from many different sources and giving Uber the much more digestible version of the information and hopefully getting feedback from Uber that we can give back to the community and use as discussion points in thier place and doing it all over again once things have progressed, it's going to be an on-going process and hopefully allow us to explore other methods to improve communication as well.

We haven't been give any kind of specific list for anything really, one could probably see it as testing our own judgment and insight in a way, but as We've said, still very much in the trial phases so we'll see.

For Ignoring, I don't know, I know for myself that the only people I've ignored aren't active anymore and even then I'd be surprised if there was someone that the entire Vanguard Group has ignored, and the posts still show up and are still manually viewable, we still see what people have quoted from the ignored user and if they're active in a discussion it will be quite obvious. I see it as an easily accounted for edge case.

Yeah, not the biggest fan of Cyan myself, especially against the Grey background colors but we'll see.

Mike