Orbital, Mobility, and "Slow Teleporting"

This is why I was suggesting earlier that things like pelters and catapults should be able to fire at orbital (with some re-balancing maybe, currently they are quite powerful already). With cheaper orbital an array of anti-orbital defenses are needed. If you add new defenses, and they are specialized to ONLY be anti-orbital, then it is likely they will be neglected (like the umbrella usually is). This specialized defense would also just add another hard counter unit, which should be avoided IMO.

What if instead of adding a dedicated refueling building/unit, you just let the transport regenerate fuel over time (costing energy). That would act as a sort of cooldown on its transport ability without adding a new unit with only one purpose.

That is not what I said.

I said that the player on the surface should be able to fight orbital using flexible units that can be useful for purposes other than destroying orbital units. For example, a fighter that can also attack enemy air units or even carry missiles or bombs to shoot ground units. And the player in orbit should be required to construct units expressly for the purpose of attacking a planet's surface from orbit. Bringing a ship to bombard the surface should require spending resources that cannot be used to shoot other orbital units.

Dedicated anti-orbital can also certainly exist, and it should be very good at its job as a result. But "idle defenses" are a waste of resources in the vast majority of cases, so constructing dedicated Umbrellas which act purely as a defensive deterrent against units which can kill you is generally unwise, and puts you in a very disadvantageous position.

As for Pelters and Catapults, I don't think it makes sense for these units to attack orbital. Some kind of tactical missile that attacks either ground or orbital could certainly be created, and might be available on both surface and on orbital units. But neither the Pelter nor the Catapult is really an appropriate unit for such a mechanic, since such a missile would probably need to be constructed for a price, and the launcher would need to be highly specialized.

I did not say that the player on the surface should win, or should even necessarily have an advantage in a fight against orbital units. In fact, I would argue the surface units and orbital units should be flat-balanced, so the player who has more resource cost in units should have a strength advantage. But even a strength advantage shouldn't make you automatically win a battle. If the other player uses their assets cleverly to get efficient exchanges, even a weaker army can actually be more efficient and eventually win.

If cheaper orbital (T1) is added then I don't think people will want to have a defense that has to be microed like that. I would prefer something that has some degree of inaccuracy for T1 orbital defense rather than a missile or laser which leads to a rather binary encounter (which is why I suggested the pelter).

It's just funny because currently the Pelter and Holkins are 100% accurate in that they always hit the targeted location.

Mike

I'm all for the warp mechanic, and I don't think it negates the gate idea very much, because in a game like this the difference between a 40 second travel and instant travel is kind of alot, but waiting 5 minutes for a unit to travel to the other side of the solar system is incredibly irritating. I really think the most important aspect of this idea is that it really limits the time that units are out of play, and thus immune to attacks of any kind, which as the OP said is currently the greatest crux of interplanet travel

Yes, obviously that would need to be fixed for my suggestion to make any sense.

Thety don't always hit the targeted unit however.

That's not what I said thought. ;p if a unit wasn't moving or moving in a consistent direct at a consistent speed they will be hit everytime.

Mike

Which is as it should be. The game shouldnt have frustrating stormtrooper aiming.

Why should everything be pinpoint accurate? You'd be tossing out a quite useful balance lever if nothing ever missed.

Robots that can't hit a static target are dumb...explain how these robots of war functiin like that..

Holy **** im honored you used this video! And I do love your ideas but while we`re on the subject of orbital units and their mobility I think there needs to be another method besides planet smashing that can destroy a base stacked with defenses. This planet fortifying nonsense is going to continue till the point in which there are about 2 other effective ways to destroy a super turtler.

Its a game... that's like asking someone to explain why bishops move diagonally in chess, they don't do that in real-life (most of the time, gotta keep your eyes on those shifty bishops ).

There's also the troop transport with tether idea

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/its-time-to-talk-unit-ideas.52165/page-22#post-803182

I don't think it is a good idea to give orbital units the ability to teleport. Because if an orbital can teleport why can't I do the same thing with an ant.

I do agree with giving the orbital units a variable flight speed.

I don't agree with the current accuracy of artillery. Artillery is used to rain down death and destruction at random, not a long range unit sniper.

I don't think the devs ever mean to have you transport Troops though orbital. which is why you can no longer pick up non-engineering units with the astraeus.


I think the idea. is pay the long trip over ONCE. build exit gate. now you can send all your troops over.


here's how I view the idea : https://forums.uberent.com/threads/orbital-mobility-and-slow-teleporting.54425/#post-831998

There's a difference between your troops not being able to hit the side of a barn at 10 paces, and them not being able to hit a target which is actively avoiding their fire.

There should be some inaccuracy. But not to the point where units that are stationary miss. The counter for artillery should be highly mobile units, you should rely on point defence to defeat those units.

Without orbital transport, the planetary game breaks completely.

If the devs mean to not have it in the game, they don't mean to have a game.

A few things i am envisioning with warp drive and new orbital (going with the 5 units per factory rubric)

Air superiority units (advanced fighters) can now also target Orbital, as can Catapults/Holkins (maybe 1 and not the other). add a basic umbrella and make the advanced umbrella better.

Basic Gantry
-Astreus Lander Pod: very cheap limited interplanetary range one time use lander pod.
-Sensor Satellite: current basic satellite. limited interplanetary range.
-Light Defence Satellite: replaces the avenger, limited inter planetary range, has similar weapon to the basic rocket turret. targets orbital and air.
-Small Power Satellite: cheaper and provides less energy than current solar satellite. limited interplanetary range
-Orbital Fabricator: builds space elevator, repairs orbital units.

Advanced Space Elevator (built by Orbital Fabber can be assisted by ground fabbers once started)
-Transport Shuttle: long range transport that can carry 4 basic satellites including Atreus Landers. has warp drive
-Advanced Solar Station: more like the current solar array but larger model.
-Surveillance Station: like the Advanced Radar Satellite from current build but bigger model.
-Orbital Cruiser: new expensive orbital unit can target ground with a slow firing relatively weak for cost catapult like weapon at medium range. has a decently strong anti air/orbital attack.
-Orbital Destroyer: expensive orbital anti ground can bombard ground targets below with pelter like weapons but has less ground range than cruiser. has a limited anti air/orbital capability.



Gameplay:

you can easily and cheaply expand the nearby moons/asteroids in the early game. you can build defence satellites to harass enemy air force and satellites, and energy Satellites are a decent mid point between basic and advanced ground power gens. fairly binary play early on with the defence satellites but the basic umbrella can effectively create no go zones for enemy satellites.

in the mid game when you can get to advanced you can fairly easily get out a transport shuttle if you focus it (similar rush timing to an advanced fabber) and use it's warp drive to colonize distant planetary systems.

Late game Orbital cruisers out range the firing arc of umbrellas but do not have very high DPS against ground targets and are susceptible to being swarmed by advanced fighters or being picked off by Catapults. Destroyers can deal a large amount of anti ground dps but must be in harms way most of the time to do it so advance umbrellas and fighters are very effective against them. late game you could also see large scale drops by loading a bunch of astreus into transports and doom dropping them on enemy locations.

i have been thinking of not giving the advanced solar and radar orbital units warp drive to make long range intel a little more difficult. to get radar on a distant planet you would have to load up a basic radar satellite into a shuttle. not 100% about it.


this is just a though experiment and is open to discussion. please no wah no ships on space you can name these units/make them look however you want but the function that they play is what i am trying to get nailed down.

This would also probably mean that the rocket gantry becomes the "unit cannon" in function as you would rally units to the gantry to build the 1 timer rocket.


also late game planet invasion I can envision a scenario where two opposing planets who have been at war for 30 minutes raiding each other with advanced orbital units and small drops warped into vulnerable locations. neither team has made any serious headway. now the long orbits of the planets have brought them close. both sides have been stockpiling one timer rockets and orbital units, nukes, air superiority fighters and have consolidated their advanced orbital fleets. both sides launch everything at once the moment they get into range and an epic lag fest battle ensues with armies mixed in combat in both planetary systems as nukes fly between planets and the satellite asteroids and slammed into each other planets ending the game with commanders space hopping through the debris of broken worlds with orbital units in pursuit.