Orbital, Mobility, and "Slow Teleporting"

as of right now orbital units all use long complex orbital paths to reach their destination. this is very buggy and I assume uses a fair bit of processing power. It also slows down the orbital gameplay significantly as there is no gameplay involved during the convoluted travel time.

example:

Since we are going to be going to a cheaper orbital + advanced orbital factory model I propose a slightly different approach to speed up the gameplay and potentially add some counterplay to orbital travel without having "space battles".

Basic Gantry orbital units (satellites) should move as they do currently but have a limited range of travel. they can freely move between a planet and a moon or two nearby planets but not distant planets across the solar system. this also means you have windows during the orbital paths where you can send your satellites.

Advanced Orbital Factory units (orbital craft) should have a completely different movement mechanic meant for longer range travel.

I propose a spin up warp drive system. when you give an Advanced Orbital unit a move command to a new planetoid it calculates the distance and charges up for a few seconds based on the distance and initiates warp speed. this warp speed would not instantly teleport the unit to the location but would turn it into a super fast moving ball of energy that can move across the largest solar system in about 10 seconds.

on the orbital map there would still be the destination tracer line for the warping unit and your deep space radar would show incoming enemy warps.

when a units reaches its destination it is "unpowered" (stunned) for a x seconds (based on distance again)

this would not only speed up the orbital gameplay significantly it also differentiates between basic and advanced orbital.

you could also make this cost energy as an added balance mechanic. this could lead to stranded fleets and interesting gameplay.

there should also be some sort of carrier type advanced orbital that can hold basic orbitals so you can load your Astreus into it for the extra range.

PS please make the Advanced Orbital Factory a Space Elevator. not only will that allow ground units to take them out but space elevators are damn sexy.

:/ how about it can only make one interplanetary trip but you can refuel it by building an orbital refueling platform (which would give a use to the orbital engineer they keep talking about.)

it would seem more immersive to me if the aestreus could only perform one trip (without refuel)(I had an idea in an earlier thread about breaking up the transport into two different parts and units : one : the rocket to rip unit (that has to climb into the orbital launcher) from gravity, two : the shuttle that can perform interplanetary flight and land but incapable of takeoff).

that aside, you say orbital is too much of a drawl but all you suggest (and I too, but I am proud) only makes it slower.

I personally think all the sun loppey loppey thing is not a constant necessity, it depends on the path (and if it is to pick up speed, why do they always travel at the same speed)

while I too would love a game like this the purpose of the thread is to try to make late game orbital faster and involve more gameplay than waiting 20 minutes for your units to arrive. by making units vulnerable as they charge up for warp and when they arrive you have direct counterplay available to deal with units arriving and leaving your controlled space.

I dont really see how going from 4-10 minutes travel time to around thirty seconds is slower.

I don't agree with the warp drive part, because the teleporter would have no reason to be.


You could imagine having much later on in the game at a very high price an orbital teleporter.



and btw I still prefer the idea of twin doors, at least two required for the technology to function, a network could be made, though and they would be non ally-enemy intelligent, that means you build it, but if you can't self-destruct it (to destroy it you must shoot it or reclaim it to death) and it has no vision alone, so if you don't defend it the enemy can use it (and without your knowledge).
the travel does take a small amount of time though, so if you destroy the target gate before the units have arrived they are destroyed.

this would of course lead to a whole bunch of depth in strategy as it would add a new asset. one that has the uniqueness of being introduced into the game by the player alone, who must make that choice.

I think Uber has made a good decision to have a cheap "basic" orbital factory on the ground, and also an expensive "advanced" orbital factory which exists in orbit. Whether it is a space elevator or not is lore, but I agree it would be cool.

Slow travel creates distance between locations. Planets should be far apart to create isolation to each planet, and prevent frequent and facile transportation via orbital units between planets. Teleporters have the potential to be extremely problematic by creating a high-speed connection between different locations, but I think Uber knows this and will design them to be relatively limited due to their teleport mechanics, cost, or other factors.

"Speeding up" orbital would likely make orbital much less strategically interesting, since the mobility of orbital units would allow them to be omnipresent. Moving a large group of them between different planets would make much more sense than splitting them up and stationing them around different planets. Especially for big, important orbital units, slow movement speed makes their positioning more strategically significant.

The key issue with orbital right now is how totally separate it is from the surface layer, making it extremely dominant since it has the ability to attack the surface, but it is very difficult to fight back from the surface due to the cost and specialization of every method of attacking orbital from the surface. The dynamic should be reversed; the player on the surface should be able to build tools that are useful to defend against orbital and useful for other purposes, while the orbital attacker has to construct specialized assets in order to attack the surface. To this end, I proposed making aircraft able to interact with the orbital layer, allowing the player on the surface to build fighters to attack spacecraft in orbit that are also useful on the planet, while an attacker must construct specialized orbital units to bombard, drop units, or deploy aircraft from orbit.

An orbital fabber would be excellent, but locking too many units to planetary orbits might prove hazardous. Rather than the X-minute stalemate while waiting for interplanetary travel to complete, you have an X-minute stalemate while you wait to build your interplanetary transport.

A single-launch astreus would be pretty nice, though.

this also has balance ramifications as it allows not only anti orbital weapons but anti ground weapons to remove the orbital production. also the factory in orbit would it be able to move? there are alot issues with a factory in orbit that a fixed space elevator would solve.

that is why a proposed that early orbital units cannot even go to those distant place. if that is not the definition of isolation i don't know what is. I also said that advanced orbital should be expensive and possible add a energy requirement to the warp mechanic.

I agree completely. Remove the avenger, replace it with a rocket satellite similar in function to the rocket turret where it can target orbital and air with light rockets.

I also think Catapults should be able to target orbital.

Agreed. An inexpensive orbital unit that transports a single small ground unit on a one-way trip would be very good. Such a unit would make the 'space race' available much sooner, but only in a very limited capacity for transporting a constructor, with nothing else.

It might even be locked to always launch a specific type of constructor unit (possibly a unique constructor) instead of requiring the player to load a different unit.

In fact, building on the concept of having specific units that are pre-packaged with orbital delivery systems, the basic orbital factory might have several different rocket payloads of units. A scout, an engineer, a combat unit, perhaps others. These units would be tailor-made to create customized interaction between players who start on different planets, since these units are the main method of attack until you have a beachhead and can construct a land factory.

Due to the fact that each rocket is a one-way trip, it might even be cheap enough to make multiple simultaneous delivery feasible, if costly.

These same units might be used later as orbital marines, being produced aboard larger orbital ships and can be inserted by drop pod, in the same fashion as rocket delivery, to attack a planet. This process would be much faster than using a dropship transport to send down normal land units, allowing virtually instantaneous delivery.

Basic Satellites including the Astreus would still be able to hop between planets and nearby moons or planets who's orbits come close.

this Warp Mechanic would be for planets that are very distant from each other where the current system takes minutes for the units to arrive.

you are basically describing the function of the Unit Cannon. a one way trip to a nearby planet or moon.

A rocket is very different from the unit cannon for three reasons. Firstly, you have to pay for each rocket instead of a lump sum upfront for the unit cannon. Secondly, a rocket lets you go anywhere, including to a different planet, allowing you to expand to a different planet and start building mexes and factories. And thirdly, the unit cannon delivers multiple units quickly whereas a rocket delivers just one for each rocket you produce, making it very inefficient where a unit cannon would be a quite efficient method.

So... completely ignoring the purpose of the thread and derailing with an idea that assumes the idea in the thread is invalid>>

I just don't see the point in this. we already have the Astreus and it is already going to be cheaper and more early game. what you are asking for is a little redundant.

actually... I think the astreus is placeholder.

i don't think anyone takes it's gracefully parachuting down (after that dramatic scenic rocket launch) then gracefully parachuting ... ....wait is this the real text? "yes, just continue, *sigh*" ...gracefully parachuting ...up :/ ....(after that dramatic scenic rocket launch!) ...I don't think anybody takes that seriously.

it's probably meant to happen like in the KS video mwuahahahaha

I like the idea of a disposable, cheap and fast transport satellite.
It would be a basic satellite while the Astraeus would be the advanced transport carrying a few more units at the same but slower.

TBH i dont agree with a interplanetary ground based teleporter because it invalidates late game orbital.

i like the ground teleporter as a mechanic to move ground troops around a very larger planet quickly but not for long ranger interstellar

I thought the topic of the thread was orbital mobility in general, also with a specific proposal by the OP for giving advanced orbital units greater mobility. I disagree, and I don't think making an alternate proposal for limiting basic orbital mobility is derailing the thread.

With respect to advanced orbital units, making them more mobile, especially with such a system as OP suggests where there is a "warp" mechanic, will strongly encourage large accumulations of orbital units which travel together.

I don't doubt that on the Galactic War metagame, some sort of FTL travel is going to be present. Travel between star systems is perfectly well suited to such a warp mechanic. However for orbital movement within a single PA game, within a single star system, warp mechanics and more mobile orbital units are not a good idea.

Other planets should be accessible relatively early, to allow players to send engineers and then begin to skirmish for dominance over the other planets. Making them inaccessible blocks this conflict off entirely. And making all access very expensive makes it very likely that one player will "space race" away and develop the planet, while the other does not, or substantially delays. But at the same time, it is undesirable to have "deathballs" of mobile orbital units that move in a single large group from planet to planet. Making them less mobile requires players to use some thought about which planets they should position their orbital units around beforehand, instead of just moving the fleet to react to any activity.

OK so lets just say the Astreus is now a single use Transporter with limited range. the new Advanced Transporter has Warp.

I doesn't invalidate orbital if you use the twin gate model....

....how do you build the gate for the place you're supposed to go to without going there first?

In any case, the orbital laser and radar would stay just as useful.

however if you combine your earlier post about reversing the ground/orbit interaction in favour of the ground then it become highly inefficient to use large fleets