Solving the Mutual Annihilation Issue

This is certainly true; but wreckage hit points are relative to unit hit points, so until the later is increased, we wont see their effects and be able to take them into account.

I think someone wrote that units die ~5x as quickly in PA as they did in TA? I think there should be a happy compromise somewhere in between.

you're as changeable as.... I don't even know.

BTW am I the only one around here who want to use target leading and simulated projectiles to solve the problem?
cuz they give the perfect balance between having actual fights where units can be "heroic", where units mix, cross each other and a fight that doesn't last too long and are balanced.

With the implementation of unit formations and more aoe weapons (mobile artillery and bombers etc.), hopefully those blob-2-second-interventions will slow down. But I agree that more hp and dps variety is also needed!

no. formations will make this problem worse.


https://forums.uberent.com/threads/poll-paper-units.53458/page-7

While this is true there's no reason that the wreckage-to-unit HP ratio has to be significantly in favour of the unit.

What if wrecks had more HP (perhaps significantly more,) than units?
Honestly it makes more sense that the functional level that these units work within should be significantly smaller than the HP of their non-functional wrecks. I'm talking a 70:30 split or something like that in favour of wreck HP over unit HP.

Like seriously. No one can think of a number between 2 and 25. No one at all.

Of course we can bobucles. However there is a significant number of people who not only accept, but also prefer the fragility of the units as is. Just fiddling with the raw HP statistics of the units either through a direct buff to HP or reducing the damage values of weapons across the board and turning it into a slugfest doesn't necessarily solve the problem, and certainly doesn't keep the same 'feel' that PA has at present.

Whether you agree with the pacing or not (I certainly don't) there are other ways to make units last longer than simply buffing their HP directly that will retain the 'feel' of the units as is.

What you and I want is fights to last longer. What other people want is units to feel fragile and expendable. There are ways that both parties can be appeased. I propose Wrecks as a solution.

Yes there are. But this is an IMPORTANT number. It is the number by which all other numbers are defined. I believe in another discipline it could be considered a physical constant.

You CAN NOT decide the stats of every unit in the game BEFORE you choose the pacing. CHOOSE a pace. Let the rest fall into place.

Fair enough, I'm not going to argue the specific point though. The pacing is borked, we agree. Let's hope Uber thinks the same thing.

The problem with mobile artillery is that all of it is T2 and expensive. Most people just move straight to nukes/orbital because you can deploy those just as fast as you could a group artillery units. Also without any form of air transport, artillery units are even slower to get out, and with the proliferation of fixed artillery (pelters/catapults/holkins) all of which outrange mobile artillery, its rare to get them in range to be effective.

That... doesn't happen as badly as you make it sound.

Boring.

Rest... TLDR

The addition of new units and mechanics will definitely change the balance of the game and the way we fight in it. Balance is pretty fluid right now.

What are these mechanics you speak of Brad? It's all well and good to tell us that you have something in the works, but until someone states the official standpoint on what the Devs see as the pacing 'sweet spot' of the game there's not a lot that will allay our concerns.

New mechanics like the unit launcher and teleporter will change the game as it is entirely. As for a "sweet spot," that's something that'll be defined by our additions as we go. Hope that helps!

EDIT: got off-topic myself thinking about all the stuff we're bringing in. Things like HP and ranges might change in the future. And formations are still very much on our minds.

Maybe I'm too stupid, but I couldn't find any information in your link about formations making this paper battle worse...?

I do think there is a point for making mobile artillery in their current strength non-turret-moving (fires forward only) and making them tank/bot speed with a slowish turn rate. This way at least they make sense to deploy with a tank/bot army.

Also, devs, could we at least ask if you guys prefer so far the idea of "easy come easy go" units as far as their survivability (make hundreds of them and kill them all off in mere moments), or if you want them much more survivable (3x longer life in combat or longer), or if you plan on them being a little tougher but not significantly (2x, no more than 3x)?

EDIT: Ninja-ing has been going on a lot lately. Anyway, thanks for the advice.

The unit launcher and teleporter will change up overall gameplay yes, but the fact that two armies annihilate each other like matter meeting antimatter won't be changed by this alone...

I do agree that things like the Unit cannon and Teleporters will change teh game, but they won't have any effect on the issue at hand we are discussing in this thread, do you know of any mechanics/changes that will affect this specific issue?

Mike

I agree that the game is balanced more or less, but units just die really quikely.
(Point of the topic in a nutshell.)