Getting a little deep on you all..

Discussion in 'Unrelated Discussion' started by spazzdla, November 11, 2013.

  1. spazzdla

    spazzdla Active Member

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    Russell Brand.. Is on quite the political agenda..

    Do you believe the central banking system is helping the people at all? If so why and how?

    Would you be behind the movment of abolishing the central banks?
  2. Slamz

    Slamz Well-Known Member

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    Something I have never seen "End the Fed!" people be able to answer:

    1) What problem were the central banks formed to solve?
    2) If you remove the central banks, how do you propose to solve that problem in some other way?

    These aren't cynical questions. I know, very roughly, the answer to the first question. I have never seen the second question addressed at all. Maybe there are good answers but I've not seen them.
  3. spazzdla

    spazzdla Active Member

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    It was created to increase money supply(which it did) and create finacial stability (which it has not even come close to ever doing.. ever.).. ?

    Perhaps increasing the money supply to fight wars is not a good idea...


    I am not a large fan of the gold standard.. I hate fractional banking even more.. I'd be interesting in if tying the monetary system to man hours would be possible. Once you die your man hours are removed from the system, each hour someone works puts x into the system. If more money was needed you could add imainary man hours to the system, yes this will cause inflation but we now think that's a good thing so.. who cares.

    I'm sure there are tons of holes in what I have just suggested though. I don't like the gold system becaues it can caues your ecom to just hit a wall if ou aren't brining in enough gold. The fractional banking system.... is always adding tons of money to the system... Yes now you can have access to loans a lot easier but the banks are making massive massive profits being allowed to give out loans on the fact someone else owes them money.. I don't like they can loan out money they don't have.. Money mart got in MASSIVE trouble for this "crime".


    IMO countries.. the people of the country should be the owners of their central bank. An election should be held and the people vote someone in to run the bank. If they cause massive inflation.. housing bubbles.. we r gonna kick them out. We also can audit what they are doing.. which we can not currently. If you base money on man hours then you don't need massive amounts of gold to start a bank, salt, fiat money, etc just labour hours.. which is what money is suppose to be a weight of..

    Loans would still work in this system if you allowed people to take out loans on themselves for future work they plan on doing. Capitalism needs to be kept though not everyone can earn the same amount of "man hour money". EG an engineer would be paied 5 man hours per hour a starbucks worker 1 (something like that) or the system would obv suck.

    Again I'm sure there are holes but I like the idea of a man hour = dollar amount/worth system very much.

    That was the idea with the silver standard I though... it took 4 hours to mine an oz of silver so that's how it got it's value realative to stuff(going back to the 1500's here)
    Last edited: November 14, 2013
  4. chronosoul

    chronosoul Well-Known Member

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    I'll post in the morning but I know the method that Spazzdla describes is the same one I saw in this blog/word thing.

    http://www.abolishthefederalreserve.org/

    Money is just a reference to how much value is perceived from it.

    Look at the Bit Coin... its at $400 trade value... and its virtual. The moniker decides how they want to deal with their goods and how they want to transfer it between people. I prefer dollars and bit coins to bottle caps i'll say.
    spazzdla likes this.
  5. Gunman006

    Gunman006 Member

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    The most obvious hole that renders man hour equals dollar amount impossible is that you doing the assumption that all man hours are creating capital, which they are not. Like Chronosoul stated the currency system is based on trust, something the bitcoin demonstrated after it was endorsed by the federal reserve as a currency alternative and it rose to ridiculous heights only to be almost cut in half after 28 hours. Since there is no real central authority with powers to committ theft like the state has or be hold accountable the same way, Bitcoin is more volatile than a state sponsored monopoly currency. Bitcoin like the dollar are worthless by themselves, its only by being used as a medium for purchasing capital they have value and that value is dependent on what others deem that capital to be worth, be it a service or product.

    Which is why capitalism is a redundant term as mankind only consist of people operating with capital, we are all capitalists even when one is a communist.

    But not go off topic, the Federal Reserve was created to provide currency reserves to banks in order to keep the "trust" going so lenders would lend and thereby increasing investements or "commerce" as it was referred to back then. Fractional reserve banking is a wonderfull institution which allows for social mobility in increasing the percentage of the population being able to take loans and increase commerce. Profits are also wonderful, it is what expands the economy (when represented by increased capital and not inflation or speculation).

    Inflation is not bad in itself, just as deflation is not bad in itself, they are just mechanism for the currency to adjust itself to fit reality which is the amount of capital. The problem with the Federal Reserve today is that the politicians gave the bank the mission to solve unemployment through inflation and thereby stimulate the economy in order to keep the economy going, which is in essence the man hour system you wanted. The problem is that the man hours the government creates does not represent real capital because it is not services people are willing to use their capital in exchange for and therefor has to be either mandatory taxation, inflationary money or subsidized through taxation thereby increasing the money supply without reflected increase in capital thereby making all the currency worth less.

    If the government would stop trying to solve unemployment and leave that to the private market there would be no problem. There is no diabolical war scheme rothschield evil jew plot behind the federal reserve, it is good naive intentions by politicians paving the road to hell. When you vote yourself politicians that promises more subsidies and wellfare you are voting for inflation, the real evildoers are the american citizens themselves and not som illusionary jew.
  6. spazzdla

    spazzdla Active Member

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    Our monetary system is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme , would you agree?

    The USD has lost 98% of it's buying power since the introduction of the fed.... Keeping the money supply stable.. that's not my definition.
  7. chronosoul

    chronosoul Well-Known Member

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    There is three things wrong in the above paragraph that does not sound right to me.

    Fractional banking is not related to the commerce banking. That is just buying practices of individuals and not because the federal reserve allows it.

    Commerce banking allows people to buy expensive objects(cars/computers/houses) without having to wait and earn enough money to buy those expensive objects through slow, working hard and saving to obtain the same item. Yes it helps commerce in a "get it now and don't wait" sense but it doesn't help the economy and promoting safe and methodiacal buying practices for people to get expensive items. A fractional banking system makes risky endevours not seem so risky and gives people a false hope in maintaining a rich lifestyle but without the effort. And then when it comes time to pay the bills, these folks who got loans get crushed with mountains of debt.

    Politicians do not control the federal reserve in anyway. I'm not sure what you are refering to when you mention bank(federal reserve?). The federal reserve trys to maintain a constant level of inflation on the dollar for their own benefit and not for the government's benefit or even the people.

    The third statement sounds like you are placing blame on the politicians for creating inflation in an effort to solve unemployment. Politicians do not "create" inflation, the amount of money in circulation does.
    spazzdla likes this.

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