2 months to release and the game feels like pre-alpha and is a letdown. Please delay the release.

How are they different, other than they are actually polished and thought through.

Look I wouldn’t mind the crashes and bugs, if the release date was 5 months away then sure, I could see your point, but it isn’t its 2 months away. Also are they going to completely revamp the UI before release? Because right now it seems like they haven’t really thought how to control these units properly. Not that its not implemented but it doesn’t seem like they have an idea of how to do it. Whats there now feels like they figured it was “good enough." The game plays like Total Annihilation and that game came out in the 90s. RTS have improved since then, by a lot and this game hasn’t been keeping up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta
You can find countless other sources that claim the same thing, Beta traditionally means the product is feature complete.

A real beta is measured by the definition of the word .

Gameplay and target audience are different. Look at TA (same sub-genre as PA) vs Starcraft 1 - both were released around the same time (TA first), but both attracted different kinds of players. Starcraft has a greater focus on tactics and micro, with many simplified mechanics to aid this. TA uses full simulation with a greater focus on strategy.

There's really no basis for these claims.

Also keep in mind that 2 months is literally ~20% of the entire development period of this game so far. This game is being developed at a phenomenal pace. Starcraft 2 was in developement for many, many years, yet PA has been written from scratch in less than 1.

Does this mean they'll hit the December target? I don't know - I am simply trying to correct the impression of what a beta is, not state they will make it. But their historical performance does give me a lot of faith that they can cram a lot of work in a small timeframe.

I feel mis represented! lol these are not my quotes but ravens to be exact.

Ottoman, you make some good points for sure, but you lost me completely with

"How are [dota/lol] different, other than they are actually polished and thought through."

I am assuming you mean different from PA. Id ask you how are they similar? Other than they are combat games that control units from an overhead perspective though orders, I cant think of very much. Dont get me wrong, LoL is a blast and has way more depth than people give it credit for, but its closer to a first person shooter than to PA.

Other than that, all the other critisms you explicity mentioned are directly related to the circular nature of battlefeild, or that there can be more than one. Both of which are completely new, never-before-EVER-like-really-I-googled-it features for a strategy game. Its only natural that there will be some UI awkwardness there, on both ends. There will probably always be.

Whoops, I messed those quotes up completely. Fixed.

The thing is Uber isn't using that software development methodology. They're using iterative and incremental development approach to software development. In this case beta means a enough major components are in place to provide a framework so that they can fill it out.

Non of my sources claim the common definition of beta or alpha has anything to do with development methods.
Iterative development is the most common modern method, and the most developers still use Beta as if it means feature complete and need polishing.

Uber isn't using that meaning. Your fixating on that definition and it simply doesn't apply here. Just because there is one meaning of the word does not exclude other meanings.

all i can say about PA, is that this has been a refreshing experience for me. i miss having betas like this, and accurately being involved with the development instead of just playing a demo while they Nerf and Nerf and Nerf stuff because someone whined about it being better than the stuff they are using.

its simply really: we are all here for entertainment, if you like PA, GREAT.

if not, thats the risk we all take when we take the chance and buy a game. some people will like it, some wont.
cant please them all.

Then it is basically like using refrigerator as if it means television, and ask people to accept that as a second meaning.

Anyway, I don't think definition is important, what's important is people usually expect a more finished state than PA currently is when they see the word "beta".

By the way, it almost look like when PA release, more than 70% of its development time and budget would have been spent on the engine and less than 30% spent on the contents. That's not healthy for a game's development, especially for a risky experimental idea like PA.

Yeps. That's probably what worry everyone here : we have a beta of a engine, not a beta of a game.

The fact that Uber use the state of the engine to define the state of their work is not helping. I don't remember backing for a engine but a game.

Yeah, feels more like a beta for engine.
But alpha for the actual game.

Who knows though, maybe the next update will surprise us all

You're both spot on.

I really hope these final 5/6 weeks are amazing and surpass all our expectations! I am more and more excited every time I see an update, as each time I am thinking 'this will be the one where things really start to push towards the release product everyone is hoping for'! Unfortunately that also means when the update is a bit damp and doesn't include anything in regards to UI, scale, new unit, graphics/animations, actually making interplanetary play playable... I'm even more disappointed.

Still... fingers crossed this time next week we actually have something new and awesome to be testing/looking at.

Why did this thread go on for 25 pages?

Ok, I don't see how you guys misses this.

But Uber is a secluded Indie company. They are made of former members who made 90s rts games, and more recently tactical field shooters.

They decided to try the successful kickstarter method of developing a game. They pitched a very early game design video, it was factually on par with pre-skyrim YouTube flash videos.

The idea then was very popular, they made kickstarter records and shattered their asking price. So it is decided to develop it.

They have been very generous with player support. Most of the time they update often and take lots of feedback.

They release alpha, right when it barely functions, and beta when they add the last mechanic.

So, people are angry that beta isn't far along? Its crowdfunded, they release the actual development process. It's not big publisher beta, because those betas are actually finished games. They are, and the beta is only there to advertise the game, no way does the beta actually help the game get finished.

So... how does the games current state make no sense?

If people ignore what Uber say, do no basic research and go in just assuming it will be like a Blizzard Beta, then I don't see how Uber can be blamed. They've been very up front about it the whole way through. Some people simply have unrealistic views on this - there were many people complaining that the alpha wasn't a finished game, had bugs and was missing features.

They've been doing content from the start - all the planet Biomes and units, AI and UI all fall under content. Also, doing too much content too early can be very costly in terms of re-work if you need to make engine changes later.

I have no problems accepting this as a beta, as long as they don't release it before it has clearly left "beta" status. Whether they'll get this ready for release by their original target date is another question.

Not to get into an argument, but where did you arise at these figures? Evidence of any kind that supports this statement? By all accounts, what with the developers previous history, I would imagine that the percentages would be reversed, especially considering Mavor stated he had been planning this game for years in his head, and many of the staff have lots of experience in making these sorts of games....
Also, I agree with TrophySystem, this thread is getting way too longwinded considering the GAME ISN'T OUT YET. Let's stop moaning about what may or may not transpire, and concentrate on constructive topics, rather than "I think this game is going to bomb, so I'm just going to moan about so that if this happens I can claim I was right and revel in my glorious foresightfulness"...

Dev time does need to be spent on the engine, they are building this from the ground up.
That's why most games out there already use an established engine, to cut out a lot of development work.
I knew we are aren't just funding PA (the game), and that the money we spend is actually going to Uber's long term assets and that's fine. If anybody put some actual thought into it, they would understand that Uber wants to take the work they do here to leverage it for the future.
In fact, they have been rather transparent about that, they aren't just building PA the game, but the Uber engine as a platform.



The beta helps since the community gets to test the crap out of it.
It helps if the community's suggested gameplay features get implemented.
Having a group of RTS veteran players seem to have a very good idea what people expect from this genre.
Fixing the scale seems pretty unanimous.




As for the UI,
The Community has asked for a lot.

I have spent a good many days cataloging and and sorting out the list and it is both extensive and detailed.
PA in it's current form is probably achieved about 3-5% of those features. *(and that's not counting the polish for it).
The day I wake up, find the patch takes us from 3% of that list to 93% is the day I'm cleaning coffee off my monitor.

Did you guys know the Uber Entertainment logo, is an orange guy holding a white box? They based that of their work method. When they design the game, they don't use a working model, just a white box. When the thing functions ingame, they add visual model.

The models they have so far is just the work keeping the artists busy. They aren't work intensive visually yet because they are in fact working on the engine. That engine needs to function. Problem?

They have changed the orbital fighter model. It was the most not like the other orbitals. That was why. That is also why it wastes work doing a model for something that's not final.

Thanks, I had forgotten that aspect about developing the engine as a future proof thing. Also, BEST. PICTURE.EVER