The Leveler

just what is the point of that?

a leveler that overkills ants MORE than it used to and definitely one shot's each other yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay omggggggg I'm melting with glee at the though of iiiiiiiiiit, yaaaaaaaay

What about the aliens?

Its an irrational fear

And your probably right. No amphibs based on a completely different RTS and an irrational fear is too extreme

taking out ants and buildings isn't special?

THIS THREAD HAS TOO MUCH OFF TOPIC SO I AM SHOUTING.

Having a tech 2 unit with bigger numbers (range, DPS, HP) is fine, because those things CAN change the role the unit has on the battlefield.

Using the leveler as a focus point, you notice that it is much better at taking out commanders and other high-hp units than ants. On the other hand, having a bunch of ants will be better at destroying stuff with less health like dox. This is just one of the many ways that a T2 unit can be like a T1 unit, but with bigger numbers, and still be specialized and not make the T1 obsolete.

Still think the leveler needs some tweaking to differentiate it a bit more from the ants though.

Yeah exactly, obviously it's hard to create completely unique units every time that have no overlap, especially when you have a large number of total units like PA does/will, but the Leveler right now is too similar to an Ant, it's fine if you want to make it sort of like a heavy hitter, but you need to do more to make that role apparent like a slower speed or reducing the rate of fire and making the weapon more frontloaded. Right now I'd say the Leveler is about 70-80% just a bigger Ant, I'd prolly like to see it more along the lines of 40-50% personally.

Mike

I'm sorry KNight. I know you try to argue reasonably for your cause, but I personally hope that the devs won't overdo the "specialization" part. I feel that if every unit has to be specialized and serve a different role, then we're getting less choices on what to do. What I mean is that there is a limited amout of roles for specialized units to fill, as has been mentioned before.
More choices are available if you fill all those specialized roles and have upgrades.
Why not both? With upgrades, when you for example have lava in between your and your enemy's base, then you don't only have the choice between for example air and something like hovers, but also the choice of investing even more into either air or hovers by going for the even better T2 version of it.
You basically have double the amount of choices, which promotes deeper strategies and more complex gameplay.

I don't know if you can follow me, it's a bit hard for me to put it into words.
T1 will alway be cheaper, and if the cost and power difference of both tiers is balanced well, then I know that T1 will always have it's use.

Some specialization is always good to have, but don't take away the ability to make deeper and more decisions by taking away "upgrades" completely. Imo, if there is a unit that's getting used too much, then it's always good to create more competition for that unit. And not to make one unit per role and to take competition between units away completely. Because competition between units is what creates real choices. And if you specialize the Leveler too much, you will eliminate the competition between it and the Ant.
Just saying, don't overdo it.

I don't really want a reponse, just wanted to put this in here.

I do want to specialize orbital units, so..............

Well orbital actually isn't a t3. First off, the aim is for it to be specialized. Second off, the game is set to be able to kill before orbital when on same planet, fair shot at that. Third, orbital isn't a repeating tier, its a new tier. Fourth, it isn't like orbital is a magical concept itself, right now it seems that way because landing on a controlled planet is suicide, but once transports are out then controlling a planet first isn't magic and has risk of you losing that foothold while having sacrified power where you were, thus getting stuck in limbo having wasted resources at one base and squandered resources from another and neither being likely canidates against the enemy.

It's like, if there was a special turret that would 1 hit kill levelers but wouldn't attack ants. Because that is the ion platform. When one has good land army orbital can become negligible, and when one has the upcoming invasion orbital devices like transports and unit cannons then you can apply that better land army on multiple planets. Then orbital is like that weapon you have armor to repel and then just go about cutting off the head of the defenceless wielder.

so what i get from people
ant = autocannon 5 (speakin mwo), medium armor, fast engine
leveler = autocannon 20, medium to heavy armor, slower engine
does that kinda fit?

If only choices worked that way...
Upgrades don't make sense in this world. You do not suddenly redesign a unit with a new function. It is better to have a unit built that way from the ground up.

no matter, that will never happen. an ant cannot be equal to an orbital transport (strongest unit in the game). or an orbital gun.

Rather direct, but ok.

And I really, REALLY do think a ant should be the equal of an orbital laser.

how the littelral f uck do you plan to do that?

Your attitude has changed.

However, the plan would be to scale down all of the units stats to make the unit as powerful as a ant, but present in the orbital layer, so as to be an alternative to a normal ground based army whilst still being highly vulnerable to normal orbital counters.

that's already the case. doesn't make it equal. the idea a tank nor most other ground units can't fire back makes them uneven.

why would you want this? I can't understand. Your frantic search for the holy advanced/basic grail makes you want to bleach everything pure white, you end up casting aside your original aspiration, which is : a fun game.

Putting comments on a forum doesn't nearly make this a kind of 'frantic search' or an attempt to make a un-fun game.

You are being overly dramatic.

And the orbital laser is leagues ahead of the Ant tank, making it much more then a specialised unit, because why would you ever want ants when you can have orbital lasers that can and will win the game within seconds.

That. That is not fun to me.

And if we are not going for a specialist/generalist trend, then please, feel free to correct me and everyone else who believes the same as we are clearly so flawed.

what then is the point to you of having a start tech and and advanced one to you? pardon me if I'm wrong but the orbital gun is a couple dern steps down the line whereas the ant is a meager few.

this balances them into something that you can kill the other with before they can get their hands on that frothing cherry-toped orbital laser.

One gives you footing, one give you tools to do specific jobs very effectively, but not at the expense of replacing the original stuff.

If you end up with a system where advanced stuff replaces the original stuff then their very concept of the game is flawed. This isn't a total war between fully enhanced and maxd out opponents because you don't start there, you have to advance up the tech tree to get to the stuff that is the best.

At which point, why didn't the player start there in the first place?

If basic units are superseded by advanced units, why have basic units at all? What is the point?

If the game ends with units that invalidate the starting ones, in a setting of using the best of the best, then really the game isn't about that at all.

you're questioning the game concept?

really I think your taking this "captured, assimilated and refined deal" waaaaaaaaaaay over the top. it's only words, lore. not the game concept. not what makes the game.

We're not turning our backs to this much work put in the direction of units that are better than one another and have flaws (yes flaws! no amounts of word beautification will turn that around.

We need that! we need to have units that are not as good as their neighbor. it's the whole concept! why else have economy? it can't only be to justify exponential numbers. The aim is that even when you're flippin' loaded you still have to choose between the ridiculously expensive unit, it's neighbor the moderately ridiculously expensive unit and (why not) the horde of first tier units.) ...to go to something else entirely that isn't the game TA fans and FA fans alike hoped for.

I really implore you to take a second look at what you're suggesting.