"Reverse Move" command for units

Moving backwards is pointless unless your vehicle doesn't have a 360 turret. In this case, the units retain the ability to fire while moving away from a target.

I say "vehicle" because you should try running or swimming or flying backwards sometime. It sucks far more than blasting treads in the opposite direction. In fact, treads are specifically designed with this type of function in mind. They don't feel bad about having limited turrets, because they get full motion in two directions(though IRL they are geared for forwards movement).

But what sort of units shouldn't have full arc weapons? The most likely candidates would be heavy weapons like artillery and snipers. Another option is for assault bots, which as their name suggests are not designed for retreat.

So is it really worth it? In the end you have maybe a handful of units that can truly benefit, and a new command that doesn't do jack otherwise.

Lol, I see lots of arguments. Not that it is a bad thing.

Anyways in my previous post (see above) I was quite convinced letting tanks have reverce is the way to go. However, after reading a bit more... I have come to the conclusion having no reverce might be a good thing. Reverse AKA turn rate is another difference between tanks and bots. Currently they are fairly balanced even though there hasn't been much balancing. If tanks would have fast turning speed they would probably be superior to bots.

Bots
Movement speed ++
Turning speed ++
Range +

Tanks
Movement speed +
Turning speed +
Range +++

Bots have a shorter range and can run away, Tanks have longer range but cannot chase.

In dune emperor of war there were sonic tanks that fired with a fixed turret and did massive damage in a straight line. The balance on that unit was fixing the turret and slow turn rate. Giving it a command to reverse move would be great to fully utilize the unit.

So yes it would be worth it to give your advanced units more complexity.


I'm not sure why everyone seems to slightly bash the OP for his idea if all he is doing is making a suggestion. All he is trying to do is present something new. I'm not arguing stop giving meaningful criticism, just don't give blunt Remarks with no good feedback.

I don't understand why he's got so much bashing. It doesn't seem like it would break the game in as many ways as has been suggested.

Im not worried about it guys. Thanks for being adults and not followers.

They cant handle the idea of giving a non kitting unit a chance against a kitting unit.

Wouldn't it be the other way around. This reverse feature you want would only work with tanks. Tanks out range bots. This feature will only aid tanks by allowing them to flee and shoot at the same time (ignoring the turret turn rate). It will allow tanks to kite more effectively.

The dox will always have the speed to over come a tanks range or turret turn rate you also have to consider the dox has twice the firing rate of a tank, so if reverse only allows me to kill 4 more of your bots before your speed gets you in range, then that is worth it to me.

I can reverse all i want, i can track you
with my turret al day, but in the end you will catch me. Fact.....

Now i wanna ask a question: (bashing is not needed) whats the point of having a ranged advantage if the dox can close the gap in less than two shots of a tank, less if i turn around? (Ive done this in game as proof)

You all have 2 understand that using tanks is my choice, and by adding a hotkey for this would allow you the choose to use it or not. Its not forcing any player to make them play this way but simply giving them the choice.

The problem here is the assumption that the Ant/Leveler is made for kiting, but only having a 25% range advantage on a Dox isn't enough to qualify it as a kiting unit in my books, especially in the light that Dox move almost twice as fast as the Ant/Leveler.

Even if you were to simply reverse you wouldn't get a significant number of extra kills because even as you're turning around your still shooting at the approaching Doxes. Yeah sure you have less time if you turn around to shoot but it's not less by that much of a significant number.

Mike

maybe this wasn't it, but im tring to make all units useful at all levels of play. like what was described in the PA plan for the game "we want earlier units to be useful late game". Ive always liked armor and don't like the idea of being forced to use a unit because its winning matches in PVP to be competitive.

I don't see how that applies here. The point isn't to make all units as useful as all the other points, the point is that Each unit has a specific role and that there won't be a different unit that makes it obsolete.

It's fine that Ant/Levelers can't kite, especially if there is a different unit that is better suited to it.

Mike

But if you add reverse, they still can't kite. They are too slow against bots. Except against other Ants/Levellers - and if they change the way targeting works so that you can't shoot at something out of your range, it won't give them any advantage by kiting.

It's a retreat behaviour. It's pretty basic RTS stuff. :?

That's kinda my whole underlying point. Ants/Levelers can't kite, not because of the lack of reverse mechanic, but simply because they weren't designed to in the first place.

If your Ants/Levelers are getting out maneuvered by Doxes, better situational awareness will do a heck of a lot more for you than any kind of reversing.

Mike

Exactly. So the only point to the behaviour is a "dynamic attack" functionality to units. which kind of makes sense to add, especially for "kiting" units such as the DOX.

Plus it increases pathfinding (There is something directly in my way. Reverse out, try another route) And it's pretty simple digital logic that can be done by 2 and gates in real life

You do know that bots are almost obsolete in most situations. It won't take long for people to not build bots at all.

I kinda agree with what your saying, but I think your missing my point.

Have you ever tried to catch up to Ants with Dox? Dox lose ever time. Now it doesn't always work out because your tanks are not always pointing in the opposite direction to the bots and they do have to turn there turrets 180°. Now with the suggestion you have none of the downsides and at the current health/damage ratios the bots either have to flee and flank or die trying to get into range.

Congratulations. You have brought the number of units that can successfully use the reverse command up to ONE.

That's basically the whole problem in a nutshell. It's so overly specific, and its only purpose is to eliminate the weakness of units that explicitly have their spinal mount as a weakness.

Brian Purkiss does it in all of his videos? Ants are attack units, Dox are defenders?

At the moments Ants are your bread and butter units. They are the best at defending and attacking (with the exception of the Pelter). Bots are only effective for raiding areas with few Ants.

There were many other units in SupCom (land and sea) that can move in reverse if microed correctly. The easiest unit to do this is with the UEF Fatboy (T4 Experimental Factory/Tank). If the Fatboy is not moving (very important), select a move point exactly behind it but half the Fatboy's length. The Fatboy will now move in reverse. You can queue up additional move points but as long each is half a Fatboys length in distance apart and the Fatboy will continue to move in reverse. Very handy to keep moving away from an approaching enemy to keep its range advantage of it guns. This is also very effective with the Cybran Experimental Crab bot, Megalith. Sadly this does not work with the Colossus (Aeon Experimantal bot). Would have been funny to see it moon walk.


So to have a unit move in reverse select a point that is exactly behind it no more than half the length of the unit. Perhaps this can be implemented in PA. In SupCom you had to do this for each unit. In PA, with area commands, this can possibly done by selecting a group of units, initiate a move point behind the center of the group no more than half the length of the group, and from there the group will now move in reverse as long as you keep adding move points in half length increments..