"Reverse Move" command for units

so its lack of skill thats my problem right? ridiculous

Not really, if saving a small amount of time is the key to victory or defeat then you need to figure out why it's so close to begin with then it probable that you're either not acting fast enough and/or that you don't have enough warning to act upon the information in time.

Mike

the better part of this idea is tanks would not have to turn there turrets back around to shoot at the force chasing them thus saving them valuable seconds and letting them do more dmg before say bots come chasing after them and shoot within their smaller range

speed in this situation was not a factor, i was in a choke point (which is the only way to get to the other half of the metal planet) i quickly gave my ants the command to turn back so i could draw them into the same bad spot i was just in, but could not do this because my tanks lumbered to a halt to make the 180 degree turn then could not path out of the bridge because of the road block i made for my self when the units got piled up on one other. simply put, if i was able to reverse there would not have been any jam and i would have takin the tactical advantage back into my favor.

But if you're already close enough that a second is the difference between Victory and defeat then the turrets should already be tracking them as targets and unless the are reallllly slow turrets should be able to stay on target.

well this is an entirely different situation(which has nothing to do with kiting) but still, having it as a button is nothing more than a crutch and ignores the real issue of the pathfinding not realizing that reversing out is more effective in a small space like than trying to turn around.

Mike

now to be a smart azz its like the scene in austin powers when he tries to make a 3 point turn in the hall way with the electric cart and gets stuck, when he could have just backed up and saved him self the trouble.lol

It's not about being a smart *** or not, but about analyzing the problem and finding the root cause and trying to fix it instead of covering up the problem with work-around solutions that only mitigate the effects of a problem.

Mike

How is it a crutch? Would make more sense to have them back up.

its not covering up anything, its simply giving players an optional but effective way to control there units, nothing more.

Yeah, in that particular type of situation backing up would have made more sense.

The problem is that the pathfinder doesn't realize that, if it did you wouldn't need a button to do it manually.

So The Problem is the Pathfinder, the solution to the problem is to fix the pathfinder.

Adding a Button to do it manually doesn't actually fix the problem at all.

Yes it is because if in that situation Reversing is the clear best outcome and the pathfinder doesn't do that the only way to fix the problem is to fix the pathfinder.

Imagine a road with a giant sinkhole in it, you can re-route traffic but the problem isn't actually fixed until you fill in the sinkhole.

Mike

Yeah I agree with you on that changing the unit behavior. Also allowing the player the option to do it would be a not a bad thing.

EDIT:
stupid dragon. when using software to dictate it what I'm saying. It was his words sometimes.
LOL - I'm using Dragon NaturallySpeaking to dictate what I'm saying. It isn't always the most accurate.

sigh............

I think units should start to aim at enemies before they enter their range. It requires some more calculations though. SupCom did it for turrets though. Perhaps SupCom did it for all units?

Yeah it did, Weapons had a Tracking Radius field that was a multiplication of its actual range(the Striker for example was 1.5x it's range) that it used to acquire targets so it could start aiming before they entered range.

Mike

It's not a path finder problem. Its a vehicle motion option that is set in the constant forward movement position.

Being able to control reverse or forward movement isn't inherent for the program to adjust path finding. It can be programmed in to move in reverse depending on travel distance. That was clicked on the map from the initial spot and have the vehicle decide to either go in reverse or Forward motion depending on what direction of motion is quicker to get there.

This is just a rough interpretation that I got from world in conflict in terms of moving wheel based vehicles.

Giving people the option to move in reverse is just an option. Having the driving universal is really a design of preference. I prefer it to be an option of choice instead of automatically chosen by the path finding of the vehicles.

Not sure why you think its a problem in the system unless you're arguing that units should flow freely in every direction and a reverse option is a crutch on the path finding programmer to fix the issues of universal speed.

What @shotforce13 is arguing is just another strategy implementation for increased control of your units... even bypassing the path finding system to improve directional defense/offense. (this is what I'm assuming)

Extreme yes.

It's still a pathfinding issue given the situation shotforce encountered. It's not like reversing hasn't ever been done before, SupCom would have units reverse given the move order was in the right place for short distances.

Elijah is writing the system up from scratch, I doubt he can create a system that can utilize reversing when dealing with situations such as the one Shotforce encountered.

Mike

I'm not sure you want reversing in this game at all, but if you did the simplest method would simply be "am I tracking a target? reverse instead of turning where movement angle is <X degrees"

But then you get into reversing being slower than moving forwards, so perhaps reversing was the wrong call because you want the extra distance moving forward provides?

Now you're into special buttons, which are no different from unit special abilities in that you must use them to get the most out of the unit (and therefore the unit is balanced on the assumption that you do), so those who micro less are punished by this new behaviour.

If that's the case then shouldn't the computer be rewarded for catching you out?

My concern with reverse move is that it will make Ants/Levelers way too strong. There isn't anything stopping you from doing this every fight.

The advantage Ants/Levelers get is larger range. To counter that they have slow turret turn speed, acceleration and top speed. Reverse effectively removes turret turn speed and turn speed from being an issue. You end up with much stronger tanks.

Is this thread based on this recent article?

http://np.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1pkq5y/depth_of_micro_a_detailed_critique_on_the/

(there is a video, but you can also check out the two top rated comments for some very interesting thoughts)

In any case, I think that if a unit has a turret weapon it should behave independently of the movement of the unit. And if a unit is like a tank then it should not need to turn around to move in another direction as it should be able to simply move in reverse. I think it will add some flair and realism to the game.