Energy vs Metal shortage penalty

Only if you build slower to the point that you economy is actually down.

That's what I've been saying the entire time. You only build as quickly as you can put your resources into the project/unit/building.

You are misleading when you say "When you stall, you build slower."
Yes, each individual project takes longer to build, but the system as a whole will finish building at the same time.
If you try to build ten buildings at the same time and stall your eco, they will finish just as fast if you built them one at a time without stalling.

If you are stalling on metal you are wasting energy. Fabbers and factories still drain their full amount of energy which can be considered a penalty for stalling on metal.

Edit:You could also consider wasting build rate as a penalty.

It works pretty much like this yeah.

HERM HERM
can I save you guys some valuable time?
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/rel-economic-efficiency-ui-mod.52613/

That isn't what this thread is about.

Yes that's as simple as it is. We overcomplicated it a lot.

if, Metal and Energy is not full, your build rate is Your Normal Build Rate
Otherwise Your Build Rate = (Your Income)/(Your Spending) * Your Normal Build Rate.

I disagree with this - if your energy is destroyed, it will lose you the game if your opponent takes advantage of it, and it will gain a lot of the Time resource for them if they don't immediately take advantage. (I.e. rather than defeating you straight away, they can regain lost tempo or build tempo compared to you. It's perfectly balanced as it is.

In reply to later second post.

The issue is the idea of tempo, the Time resource.. The economy UI mod really is spot on when it says that your production is still green if metal is between 75 - 100, energy is full and below 150%.

If you have 10 factories operating at 15%, your opponent has 2 factories operating at 75%, he can stream bots in pairs into your base every 20 seconds. Let's assume roll off time is about 10 seconds. So every 30 seconds, you see a pair of bots. Two bots isn't much of a threat, admittedly.

Your incomes are 180, your spending is 240.

If he has 20 bot factories operating at 75%, and you have 100 operating at 15%. He can put you under substantially more pressure before you are able to respond. He can send 3 smaller waves your way before you send one large wave his way. By the time you've sent 3 waves his way, he can send 11 waves your way.

If you both get a fab vehicle to expand his economy, his build rate would drop from 75% down to 72%. It would take 42 seconds to complete the first metal extractor, and afterwards his build rate would be 78%.

When you get a fab vehicle to expand economy, your build rate will drop from 15% to 14.8%. It would take 202 seconds to complete the first metal extractor, and afterwards your build rate will be 15.6%.

It's a measure of how valuable the Time resource is. His economy expansion is 160 seconds ahead of yours, so he can use that 160 seconds. It translates to 8 air defense towers, assuming he's managed to get 8 fabbers in the right positions ahead of time. While he does that, his build rate is 75%

Exactly my point!!! I just feel its not evident enough. If you try to rush something with twenty fab with nothing in your bars you should slow much more than now. It should be some sort of multiplication depending on how many fabs you keep piling on your crashed eco

How would it slow down?

All you are doing is shifting where the majority of your income is going to with that.

That's completely unnecessary punishment. You are using what you have. You are using a percentage of your manufacturing capacity based upon how many resources you have available. It does not make any sense whatsoever to have someone 'waste' resources for an arbitrary reason.

How is there waste??? Just slower build..... because you're trying to use more than you have

Right.

So you only use what you have.

Making them arbitrarily lose even more resources is just punishing someone while they're down which is basically death for any kind of competitive play.

Yes you're using what you have , but you forget economics. When you try to use twenty fabs on an eco that can only support five you're exceeding your spending limit. Much like taking a loan at the bank the loan has interest on it. Granted you aren't going to be gifted resources to finish your project, but you should be paying interest on the check your can't cash. Wait that's a better example think of it as a check overdraft fee, with the fee being an even slower build rate which increases with the more you try to spend over the limit

'But the way it works is that those 20 fabricators will use the metal available for 5 fabricators. Your build rate is substantially slower than it would be for the other player running 5 fabs at 100%.

But this isn't money. This is resources. If you have 20 fabricators but only the resources for five they should only use the resources for five. They shouldn't be magically pulling resources out of the air to waste and put you even further into a deficit. I don't know of any other game that does this and I don't think it should start now.

I understand they are supposed to use the resources for only five just doesn't seem like they do currently...... and its not magical resources

They do. They only use what they have available. It seems like they have more because the economy for PA streams. They're able to evenly use the resources across all of them, so they all progress at the same rate.

Well in TA such decisions literally brought you to a stop almost....... its still a check casing fee to me. Example: you have a five bot eco. You add five more bots to your build now the power of five bots is distributed across ten, double your economic ability. No penalty there, however you decide to crank five more con and add them.... now the penalty begins. For example every bot over double your ability detracts from your build rates. Just for the sake of this example we'll say a tenth of a bot. So ten bots shares the power of five but fifteen shares the power of 4.5......

I guess the thing that doesn't make it as evident currently is mex not using energy so crashing power doesn't crash metal as well. I kind of liked that aspect of TA

So at what arbitrary point do we decide that the penalty sets in? How big of a penalty? At what point do things die altogether?