Com Repping is OP

Like Pelters?

Said splash-unit would have to be accessible in the early game, but not be overpowered in the early game.

Nope. I was playing the AI, I had a 1 mex start, vs his 5 mex start. (I was playing 9 AIs at once, as is my usual style, so he spawned right next to me)
I walked missile turrets into his base. They targeted the commander fine.

Currently, the only way to counter an early commander rush is by doing the same to your opponent or meet him in a commander duel. Fabbers repairing the commander is crucial in any offensive or defensive use of the commanders as it allows him to stay healthy.
Alone however it is easy to kill off the repairing fabbers with Doxes as the commander have huge issues to hit moving Doxes.

If the enemy commander is diving into your base you have should have 2 main advantages early game.
1. You will have had more time to use your commander for building which means that depending on the rush distance you should have a slight to significant advantage when he reaches your base.
2. The enemy commander is easier to surround and it is easier to kill of the repairing fabbers with Doxes and after that you can hunt him down with your commander having your own fabbers trailing behind repairing your own commander as you advance.

That said, the commander rush is likely to be much more potent when he will lead the target and hit Doxes much more accurately.
A good idea could then be, as you said, to raise the price of the commander so that repairs are slower and more expensive.
This will severely hurt his capabilities to be used offensively as it is much more risky and expensive to keep him healthy.

I am all in favor of nerfing active repair in the middle of combat on any unit on which such nonsense is used.

But the real fix for this will be to simply introduce at least one unit that is very scary to a commander. And a different unit that is very scary to a blob of constructors.

There are a variety of ways to do this, which is good because every basic factory should have some method of dealing with either big units or blobs. A unit with combat splash (Zero-K Pyro). An assault unit with a lot of HP and enough damage to be a serious threat to a commander (ZK Zeus), A unit that has a long cooldown on a big missile that splashes (ZK Banisher). A crawling bomb (ZK Roach/Skuttle). A raider gunship (ZK Banshee).

And there are lots of other approaches. A missile gunship with standoff range and high stopping power, a cheap DPS skirmisher, any method of inflicting stun, either on a single target or splashing, and so on.

The fact that all you've got is basic combat units (which the commander is designed to be able to defeat a rush from) is making it difficult to defend against an attacking commander in the early game.

What you experienced was a known bug. If a commander starts in the water it will become untargetable for the rest of the game.

First of all, if something results in a draw it could not be called Over Powered now could it?

How to survive a commander rush:

As always, scout your opponents so whatever they are doing won't surprise you.

If there's a commander and some Fabrications Units (FUs) coming your way, send a small pack of dox or bombers to deal with the FUs. If you don't have any of that around you should have the build power to get it up in a few moments because you went all-FUs and have expanded like crazy since your opponent tries to comm rush. With all that build power getting a laser tower out will be really easy. Build it with a wall in front and then proceed to place your own commander between the laser and your opponents comm so he can't uber it. Use your uber on him whenever possible. Your Ubers + Your laser + your units vs your opponents comm without any FUs (remember we killed them on the way over?) will leave you in an obvious dps lead. Keep building missile towers and lasers to kill any of his units that might come in to support and save some of your units for the kill if enemy comm starts to run. GG.

Sometimes you play crowded games on small maps, then you have to get support from your team to pull of the same thing, Let the enemy take out a factory if that's what they're after, as long as they are the ones taking damage.

Worst case scenario? A draw. Hopefully the rusher will give you a rematch so you can kill them good next game.

P.S.
Dox rule early game if they get to run, never let them stand still.

y no fabers & radar at your base..

A commander rush is cheese but I don't see how that tactic could actually win games unless your opponent makes some mistakes. A pack of dox can easily destroy the repairing fabbers once they get behind them, which they can easily do cos as long as fabbers are assisting the commander they are reduced to its movement speed. Meanwhile you can use your own commander and 1-2 fabbers, which should be assisting your commander anyways at this point, to fight the attacking commander.
I can only see this strategy work if a) you sent your doxes straight at the enemy commander instead of circling him to attack the fabbers or if b) the enemy commander has dox support as well and you can't deal with his numbers, but that essentially means that you got out-ecoed.

I know that this is not helpful at all, but could you please not mention that abomination of a game. Thx.

I know that this is not helpful at all, but could you please not mention that abomination of a game. Thx.


I could but PA got some ideas off Supreeme commander 2 ,and against that i cant do nothing.

What made the com-rush OP in Sup2 was the upgrades and veterancy.

The ACU was designed to scale-up and get stronger as the game went on. This was to address the problem in Sup1 where the ACU was a liability that you had to hide in your base.

It all went to hell really quickly when you accelerated the ACU's scaling progression up faster than expected.

There was a counter to it, but it required a bit of discipline and vigilance to execute. The counter was just to allow you to survive and fend off the rush. Because the rushing commander went all-in, it didn't have anything left to play a conventional plan could just be killed off after you piled up a big blob of bombers.

There were a lot of things together that made the com rush stupid in SupCom 2. For starters, the fact that research costs no resources to upgrade. This means you can build 3x Research Stations and upgrade your com with no mexes or power to speak of.

Add to this that you start with enough RPs to get Veterancy 1 immediately, which gives your commander more HP and damage. Consequently, he is the strongest unit on the board. Unless your enemy does the same thing. Which is fine, because you also spent all your starting money on 3x Research Stations, which let you get another upgrade- possibly Vet 2- again for free. Which, once again, leaves your commander completely unbeatable by anything on the board. Unless the enemy does the exact same thing.

Building units costs resources. Upgrading your commander does not. I have no idea who thought that was a good idea, but they were morons.

In 1v1, if you were much more skilled than your opponent, you could survive a com rush. But anyone could easily win a large majority of their games by com rushing every single game.

And in team games, it is literally not possible to stop a coordinated multiple com rush.

Fortunately, SupCom 2 is dead. And we can stop discussing how broken ACU rushes are in that game because PA will have low-tech units that can kill commanders. Because commanders are to be protected, not used as your entire army single handedly like you begin the game with a god damn experimental unit.

I think it's important that the community knows what was wrong with previous games (all of them) so that they have a more informed understanding of what effects various suggestions have.

I think we all agree that how good the ACU rush in that game that never happened was was just insane. But that doesn't necessarily mean that a proper done upgrade system leads to a commander that's too powerful in the early game, SupCom FAF proofs that (at least in my book).

Christ, never done that scummy strat before.

This is why I don't like playing multiplayer with randoms.

Micro'd doxes kill coms any day. Anyone who gets beaten by this cheese is being outplayed massively. These all in strats are so easy to counter and when you counter them, the enemy has no way out unless your macro is abhorrent.

If a poor player who makes a load of mistakes can easily force a draw against a good player who gets a good start with a given strategy, it's OP. If forcing draws is easy, ranked matches become a joke, as the lower ranked player always has the incentive to draw a game he would otherwise probably lose. And your counter strategy is silly since it involves "expanding like crazy" one minute into the game, which is economically impossible.

Still pointing out that Dox micro is a bug. Two broken mechanics do not make one fixed one.

It is not easy to force a draw. The commander explosion only deals about 25% of a commanders health. This means that if the enemy manages to do 25% more damage to your commander or if he heals 25% more he will win. It takes about 100 seconds for 2 commanders to kill eachother. The damage output from two Dox or the repair power from one fabber is enough to make 1 player win decisevly in that timespan.

And if there running into your base, then you have the advantage. You can use building as damage sponges and get your units there sooner.

Unless they come with significantly more units, you will win.

You have theorycrafting. I actually find that a draw is the worst case scenario for a rep-rush and it takes no skill at all to execute. Even getting a draw for the defending player is a challenge for exactly the reasons you list.

They are coming with significantly more units. One fabber negates the damage of over three Doxen and almost has the hitpoints of two. Obviously all engies is the idiotic force composition (but is still remarkably effective), mostly engies and a few Doxen is way way better than pure Doxen. You can use your buildings as a damage sponge, and they can use their commander as a damage sponge, which regenerates at 500 hp per second. Without 2:1 numerical superiority, prioritising the engies results in the loss of all your bots because of the engies' superior HP. Things get worse when you factor in turrets. They're useless at stopping a Com because they can't flank and do 40 dps against his minimum of 135 regen, but they can stop bots, take five seconds to make with assistance and never miss.