Factory Complex

This just sounds like a calculation. At some point you should start upgrading your factories into complexes. It's a simple calculation which does not affect your gameplan. Furthermore this feature would force people to build factories in bunches of 4 for when they want to upgrade them in the future. It just restricts base design.

There will be some simple cost relationship which determines when you should upgrade factories. How can there be anything else? It is simply a matter of calculating the best way to turn resources into build power. This would just be another thing for the community to solve, another task to remember ingame and another newb trap which causes players to lose when they inevitably build this thing at the wrong time.

Don't think so much about what you as a player want when playing a game. Of course you would want a cheaper source of BP. I would also want to own an unblockable nuke. This does not mean that such things are good for the game.

In short there is no point in having two things which have identical purpose. One is bound to be better than the other in the endgame and the point at which you switch is a basic calculation.

What I would think to be cool is a factory complex that is just like 5 factory's, but over the space of 2.

That could be a cool end game kinda thing of a macro factory.

Also a good idea. But I'd like that as an upgrade for T1 Factories, rather than a separate building. Because I'd like to be able to "recycle" buildings that I have built in the very early stages of the game, and to make them better.

Just let it stay the same size in width and length, but let it build up in height by adding more floors. Units could be carried down by elevator for example.

So that would be an option for just upgrading your factories, instead of combining multiple factories which some people disliked.

Could have it work like the advanced metal extractors and have the 'upgrade' be either built straight up, or over an existing factory discounting the cost of the original factory.

I like the idea but not in this form. Upgrades might not be a good thing but what about a factory complex that can be built by a T2 fab that produces t1 but at a faster rate and has a higher hp? I also think more depth needs added to energy. I like the TA concept and I mentioned before this is feasible without infringing IP.

Turns out 2 T1 Factories have double the Health and Builds units twice as fast as a single T1 Factory.

Mike

I know that of course and your right. I was just throwing some thought experiment type ideas basically how you can avoid going down the upgrade route but do something interesting building wise that hasn't been done along the lines of the OP.

The same goes for T2 power plants, and noone is complaining about them.
I don't believe that it's purely calculation, because you can just decide to neglect T1 units and do something else.
You wouldn't have to build a factory complex, because you have the choice to focus on T2 units or something else instead. Ofc it is assumed that a factory complex will only be buildable by T2 fabbers.
Yes, it's calculation when you compare it to normal factories. But the same goes for T2 energy plants in comparison to T1 energy plants. You could always build solar arrays, or one of the upcoming alternative energy sources instead of T2 power plants. But you wouldn't want to continue building T1 power plants having those options.

So Imho having a kind of "T2" factory producing T1 units quicker and more efficient wouldn't restrict you, but rather enhance your ability to make different choices. You could always elect to stay at T1 factories if you wanted and develop other branches.

Edit: There's also the time aspect. You could make factory complexes need large amounts of time to build. Making them benefit you more in the long term and normal T1 factories in the short term. That way it's harder to decide between the two, depending on the current situation you're in.

I hope that makes things a little bit clearer.

Correction, you haven't seen anyone complain about them, I can speak for myself and others and this thread being the most recent. In particular I feel like Advanced is the perfect place to implement the 'alternate' energy sources like solar, wind, tidal and Geothermal while still having the Basic Power Generator remain as is.

Mike

How is a factory complex a solution to your problem in the op?" I don't want to build more of the same units but I want to build something that builds more of the same units quicker?"

Anyhows forgetting this, what kind of advantages does this complex give? Is it just like a protection so 4 factories will all die the same time? Build quicker? Will the units still cost the same? Why not build more factories? How will the build queue work?

Edit: just read your last post. So it builds faster and more efficiently. Does this include till off time or are several units being built at the same time?

Fact is, as long as there will be T2 power plants, they will be better than T1 plants. And as long as that's the case, "basic calculation" will always be involved. I personally don't even see a problem with that. It's how multi-tier rosters have worked since the age of time. Even if there will be more alternative energy sources, you will always be able to calculate as to which one is the best in which situation (except when their income rate is completely random).

Now somehow when I want to use that same mechanic in a different way, people suddenly see a problem with it.
I can't understand that at all.

And I don't know why people always come with the "4 factories together so they die quicker" argument...
The majority of players already build their base as compact as possible.
Don't act like you'd spray your factories all over the place. Nobody with a simple understanding of the game does that, because you would have a much harder time defending that additional space.

It's also called risk vs reward. It's a common gameplay element in RTS-games.
You risk losing four factories at once with the possible reward of being able to produce units quicker.
Units should cost the same or maybe be even cheaper.

Why not just more factories? Because you'll have to handle space management problems eventually. It's an option to having more unit producing capability on smaller space.

I'm not sure about the building queue. I find that only being able to produce multiple units at once would be one possibility, but might be a bit too restrictive.

But then again, this is a game about massive amounts of units, so does it really matter?

I was considering the 4 factories lasting longer a good thing not a bad thing. It's similar to someone's megabot argument, that it may cost the same as 30 tanks but it has the power of 30 tanks until it dies.

The only argument I am seeing is space, which this game has an abundance of. I feel if you have not enough space to build a factory investing in the long game may not be so clever. Let's say it builds 20% faster and more efficient. 1 factory and 2 pgens will have a better effect and surely cost less than this complex?

The thing is that in a game like PA, Calculations will always be present, ALWAYS. The thing that needs to be done is to not rely on them. Things like simulated projectiles and procedural generation make it so that there isn't a singular best option that covers everything, sure there are situations where a unit will be clearly better than another unit, like a Hover unit being better in areas with lots of small rivers compared to a regular tank, but it won't always be the best answer, for example of there is only a small portion of the planet it might not be worthwhile to build Hover tanks for that small area. The Goal is not to abolish calculations, but to ensure that there are so many potential outcomes that you have some leeway in the execution.

Also as I said, there are those that want a different system and it's not like the current amount of Tier Obsolescence is exactly being welcomed either.

Mike

That's tricky. I'd have to think about that. I'm not really the guy to work out the details, I'd like to let the devs do that. I don't even know if my idea will get used in any way, so investing too much work into making it balanced doesn't seem worthwhile to me at this time.

But I'd probably make it really op, like 100% better production rate, just to see the effect on the game, and then try to balance it from that point onward.

Yeah that's fine man, I wasn't having a go, but brad said he was going to give this to the devs so I was just trying to speed the process up a bit by problem solving/ making problems. .

Btw, now I'm convinced that units being produced in those complexes should be cheaper. That would explain why they'd be produced quicker. Also it would give you another reason to build them instead of normal factories.

This is the problem, you're not alleviating the problem of obsolescence at all, you're adding to it.

Mike

You're not exactly helpful either

I would see your point if both options, the normal factories and factory complexes would both be buildable at the beginning of the game. But that's not the case because one is an early-game building, and the other one is supposed to be a late-game building.