Future queuing/ reorganizing orders/ move Build ETAs

I have no idea either.

You can already shift click to give units queued orders, which is what "future orders" means to me.

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/future-orders.53140/#post-810212

You want to be able to tell engineers to do things and they do the next logical step?

Wow...
uhm no?

Then you should probably explain what you mean better because I have no idea.

let's take it step by step then.
do you know what E.T.A. is?

Estimated Time to Arrival. but you're saying you want something like Engineers to be able to reclaim a mex and then once that reclaim order is given be able to build a new mex on top of it.

But using "E.T.A." there is just confusing the issue I think.

Yeah, your idea is really poorly described.


I think you want is units to be smart enough to know that orders have an effect on the environment, hence that orders that are currently impossible may become possible after certain things in the queue happen.

A non-PA example; you've got a miner, and a mine, but the entrance is blocked. If you tell the miner to go inside, he'll tell you to sod off, because the miner can't path past the blockage. You can tell the miner to clear the blockage. After that, the miner will be able to find a path inside.

I think Tatty wants to be able to queue up orders to clear the blockage then go inside before the first order finishes.

[EDIT:] ETA literally has nothing to do with it.

well you get the idea at least.

this would break some walls where a user may feel like he's capable of more but not being let done these things.

actually alot of walls.

I think that you should be really careful with smart AI. The player is the one that is supposed to make the smart decisions. I understand wanting to change the game from control-based to decision-based, but let's be realistic: the game already rewards constant troop movements and multitasking and I think that's inherent to RTS games. Either you switch to a more turn-based style, where there is a map with discrete points that you can send units to or you accept that units need to be in range, need to be monitored, maneuvered and will reward a high degree of control.

It's actually quite dangerous to shoot down every change to the game that might make control more interesting based on the dogmatic point of view that control should be eliminated, when it's more important to create a game that works.

If the scale of the game is to be grand, with combat on multiple planets, I think it is quite unreasonable to expect awareness of what happens on all planets at once, especially since units can die quickly. It will turn the game into mind games about what the opponent is looking at and trying to reading his habits of prioritizing, as well as forcing high map awareness and multitasking. That might be fun, and it would be a shame to take that element away in its entirety, but it is also somewhat random, unforgiving and difficult.

An interesting alternative to this might be the ability to program your units. Many RTS games have something like the patrol command, which is a simplistic version of this: units execute movement actions without your input (outside of direct combat). For instance, what if you could group units together and can tell them to respond to attacks within a certain range? Or to execute an attack somewhere in the next x minutes. Or to tell production facilities to reinforce a certain group of units that you have sent to attack somewhere, without having to manually build and rally units all the time. Or what about advanced formations?

I'm sure there are some not too complicated approaches to this that will have broad usefulness and can alleviate you from the need to be constantly aware, all while rewarding smart decisions. In my examples there is some automation, but the player is in direct control in terms of decision making and it can be motivated as not reducing the depth of the game by looking at the grander scale the game plays on.

And it can certainly be discussed to what degree automation is desired. Note that the game already has automation (units don't need to be told to shoot something that is in range). I think that if you are going to increase the scale of the game that the UI needs to be powerful enough to match, we already have the ability to fully control the zoom and that might be enough, but I think going from one map (like in SupCom) to a solar system with many different planets might necessitate more utility. Advanced unit (group) commands might do the trick.

Let us say you are just starting you game. You order your commander to build 2mexes, 2energy and 1 factory.

On your screen you would get to see a list of icons showing the things your building with the ETA (Estimated Time till Arival). You can also cancel any building you want in you list.
Mex ETA 0:15 - Mex ETA 0:30 - Energy ETA 0:45 - Energy ETA 1:00 - Factory 1:30

Situation 1: Building a mex on a wreck (Reclaim first the build)
Reclaim ETA 0:10 - Mex ETA 0:25

Situation 2: Building a mex on a wreck (Rebuild using the wreck)
Mex ETA 0:10 (Now build time for a mex is 10sec and not 15sec.)

Situation 3: Building a mex on an enemy mex(Ignoring wreckage)
Attack ETA 0:15 - (Reclaim ?) - Mex ETA 0:30

In all 3 situation you only need to place a mex on the mex spot the rest is automated.

Note: All the times are made up.

Now that makes sense!!!! Seems like another for the wish list, but I think it would add something nice. Not necessarily ETA listed but a build schedule for fabs and move list for units might be cool. I just don't see ETA being necessary as it would constantly fluctuate depending on eco restraints. Yes queuing orders like reclaim and then build on wreckage would be nice, but saying estimated time of arrival orders?????? Sense it makes does not

I like your ideas, I've been insisting on leaving the game more to real time strategy as well instead of this fully automated lame fest it seems a lot of people want..... with their cries of to much micro!!! Granted there are places where micro can be diminished but units that essentially think for themselves, and expand on their own? No Bueno...... but semi automating like you have stated is a great idea

Maybe it's better to do something like they did in SupCom
If you try building an extractor on a destroyed one the build starts halfway done!
It's a really simple and clever idea, and should be applied to everything, if you build a factory on an energy plant you start with a third of the build done, viceversa the energy plant with two thirds!
You should use a bit of maths to get to the exact values, but I'm expecting this idea to be actually used since in SupCom it was so successful.

would you mind -/**!"§"(-' reading over my posts?

I don't know which noob started talking about units ordering themeselves but it certainly wasn't me.

you're in the wrong topic.

Your original idea is not exactly clear as to what it means.

Insulting people isn't the way to go.

that's how eta works and it's doesn't remove from it functionality and usefuleness at all, C.F. supcom.

now to put everyone back in the fresh since everyone seems to be in need of that :

the thread topic wasn't ai units under your control .... read!

...it was having a more extensive shift queuing features.


In FA all that we currently have for shift queuing was present and more what I'm saying is let's pick up from there and take it even further.

one might say : "I can't see it being more complete than it was in faf's FA"
I say : "I see at least one addition that would revolutionise the way we see macro-style RTS : utilise the information E.T.A. gives such as when a reclamation will be complete (keep in mind for E.T.A. updated with eco and death events, the predictions would be 99.99% acurate).
this allows for more extensive shift queing. heck in this case scenario why not have non-built units and factories be selectable?

You build your first factory with your com, select it queue up some units and an engie. select the units (to-come-out) tell them to target pre-existing wrecks (which this map has, roll with me), then also select the (to-come-out) engie, tell him to build where the wrecks are. In normal circumstances (for the finished game) there would have been an auto-queue of reclaim added before the factory for all the wrecks clipping with it's placement. Here, though, E.T.A. tells this little (to-be-engineer, or by now, existing engineer) that by the time he gets there the wrecks will already have been destroyed by the units you sent. he does not queue up reclaim orders and places the factory atop eminently present wrecks.

the units die on route? reclaim points added."
at this point you cut me off
-"yea but that would be adding orders before other in the build queue, you can't do that you can only add after"
-"not according to any great RTS", I reply "I urge you to read coldboot's idea on this matter. SupCom almost finished up the work although they only went as far as allowing you to remove orders in a shift-build-queue and chaging their physical placement around. also a factory build-queue could be reordered around entirely through click and drag.

We aren't that far from full shift-queuing reorganisation here. the little additions to the UI that would permit these things aren't that complex and the features combining full shift queing reorganisation with ordering ghosts of future units would unlock are limitless.
If you are quick enough it could mean you could queue up tech two and its first structures and units as you are still building your first factory.

does this provide an advantage over the guy who doesn't shift queue a ton of things?

no, you still have to adapt your build as you go, escalation of commitment remains any strategist's bane. but having a preset queue that lasts decently is vital to handling multiple planets on your own."
disscuss

You're using ETA in places it doesn't need to be used which is confusing the issue. The idea of "ETA" is unnecessary to the feature idea you're trying to get across.

so you understand now what I mean?

Sort of but I'm not entirely certain what you're wanting is possible.