Uber, do you agree PA needs a huge UI update?

Main issue is that, as soon as you have put radars or you have units with radar patrolling in a zone you do not see because it's just behind the planet, then having to rotate the planet is a bit counter intuitive.
In FA, a simple zoom out and you could see all the zones covered by your radars.

Now that we're playing on a planet battlefield, zooming out is not enough. And being skilled at rotating the planet is, as far as i'm concerned, a little bit ruining the gameplay.

While holographic sphere may not be the perfect solution, at least, being able to switch to a view similar to the one we have for the whole planetary system, but this time having holographic spheres on which you can zoom in/out could really improve the gameplay. And in game, we could imagine to have a hotkey that would display the current planet with holographic mode in a dedicated window.

The idea is to avoid spending you time rotating the planet when you have allready scouted or put radar to give you a larger view of the battlefield. And a minimap, to me, does not make sense at all. We've backed for awesome, so i think holographic is the perfect additional feature to go for awesome. I'm not claiming for it right now, but i think this could be a nice feature added later if it requires much more stuff from Uber.

nonono I wasn't talking about PA, even less PA's interface. I was talking in general about the feeling of learning to use a new revolutionary, mind-blowing UI (as main reference : the discovery of FA's interface, second possible example (if you want to take it that far) : PA's would-be UI, the one we haven't though of yet).


also no excuse for all buildings not being allowed to be placed in a line or even a rectangle in a grid.
the building doesn't quite fit? try squewing it and putting it a tad off to the side.


the result would probably be a field of not-at-all alligned buidings but so what? you just placed 100 buildings in one click!

I'm a bit greedy. I would like to see all 3 modes available....
To quote Queen. I want it all!

• Standard (True, spherical, opaque)
  • 

• Holographic (True, spherical, transparent).
  • The ability to turn a planetary assets transparent).
  • Game-wide default level of "HoloMode" transparency on a slider.
  • Individual window transparency can also be controlled.
  • 

• Projection (Skewed, projected, opaque).
  • Remember, the center of camera focus will be near perfect!
  • Projection can be moved and panned within the specific projection borders.
    
  • If Uber codes in some sort of projection mode and have it optimized. This means that a we too should have the ability to slice, dice and skew a planet's surface however we want! After that, I think the modders can then implement any of the projection types.
    See this XKCD comic for some examples.http://xkcd.com/977/
  • Ideally, the modders will have a couple done up so I can just pick preferred one in-game.
  • 

These are just viewing modes. We still retain full control over everything.
They should not be limited at all, but just another way to look at the planet.


Simple single-button toggle between these modes
This should only affect 1 window of your choosing.




There.
Now can we all be hold hands, sing and be happy?
There can be cake after.
and beers. (the beer won't be a lie).

I also think that if the center of the projection is at the target aim of the camera, the distortion effect wouldn't be "disturbing" or "hard to get".

Because it's not about getting an accurate 2d view of the battlefield, but an overview of it.

+1

To note not all developers work on everything development wise. Steve that was showing off HDR may not even be the UI guy. So because you value UI higher than some other things you'd want Steve's work not added into the game when it was ready to be?

There are different teams and areas of expertise within Uber. An Art guy isn't going to be much help to a coder.

In fact I think Uber has some people who work pretty much only on the UI.

I know they had a few for their previous games though they are no longer working at Uber.

why would he be opposed to adding Steve's work into the game?

Judging by:

that seems to me like overextrapolation taken to the extreme. or over-exageration, if you will.

even with the urbanisation of the word nice we're not yet into the negative.

"...when it was ready to be?"

"but I will be sad if it's added before a slick UI "

It's not that hard to understand.

that's saying one is more important to him than the other, not that the other shouldn't be there.

Thank you for clearing that up.

I think he's saying that "but I will be sad if it's added instead of a slick UI (and interesting battlefield with some features like cliffs, plateaux, chokepoints,..)."

Hardcore gamers believe that gameplay > aesthetics > graphics.
I think that was the point he was trying to make.

Who cares what gamers believe. This is simply how game development works. Stuff that's ready to go live, goes live. Different developers work on different things. I was just trying to say that just because something else is being shown off does not mean it's a higher priority or holds more value that what isn't being shown.

Ahhh good point.
I probably just don't understand it very well.
I'm a total layman when it comes to graphics rendering theory.

The holographic thing is nice as long as people don't confuse it with a '2d transparent sphere'. I can't support the idea of making the in-game sphere transparent AT ALL - it will just cause information overload. There are way too many icons on the screen as it is, doubling it and somehow trying to make them distinguishable (which ones are facing you? Which ones are on the back side?) is literally taking a big step backwards even from the CURRENT poor UI.

A smooth transition to a projection map as you zoom out is still the best idea I've heard. Ideally I'd love it if you started at the planet's surface, zoomed out, the planet slowly flattens out, you can see the whole planet, then you keep zooming out and the map of the planet slides off to the side to become a panel on the side of the screen as you enter the solar system view.

Not everybody processes information the same way.
You have have a really good directional sense, and know how you spun the planet.
Some of us need a compass at all times.

You might be able to remember the number of enemy units.
Some of us get tunnel vision.

You might be able to extrapolate and remember the shape of the forces on in their base.
Some of us just can't do that.

Some of us can take in a vast amount of info and not be overloaded.
You might need a a little bit at a time.

Also....
I just added 2 icons to the mock-up.

Exact same color, size and shape.
No fancy filters.

Only the planet is slightly transparent.

I'm pretty sure you can tell which yellow icon is in front.

I disagree with this.
I believe the entire solar system should be in true 3D.
Jump from 3D to a projection totally breaks immersion.
This is the exact same reason I have an issue with the current Celestial View.

@tatsujb started a thread on this by the way....
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/...feel-has-a-lot-to-draw-from-ozonexs-pa.52806/

It should be a true 3D view from Solar System down to the planet's surface.
That way, the player is always under the aesthetic that this is a real life system of planets.
Not just a projection when he zooms out a little bit more.



Some of us clearly want a fully interactive, zoomable, live projected view.
Why not just use what you want?
It's not like the option of a projected view in the game will force you to use it.

First, make a graphical mockup where the planet has a 'standard' set of units on it - say 100 on the front, 100 on the back. You quickly see the limitations, although it also will underline how poorly icons actually work to represent your forces at a higher zoom level. Then add orbital units to the mix... it's way too messy, and like I said, just take the current poor UI and makes it worse.

Second, I strongly believe that a single mouse action should move you from 'ground level' to 'strategic view' in one smooth move, however you want to do it. Honestly I'm happy to have it be an option - 'Zoom to Projected map' or 'Zoom to Planetary View' - And allow players to do something like hold down CTRL to swap to the alternate view.

I'm not sure the solar system SHOULD be in 3d, to be honest. What benefit do you get from freely rotating the camera in the solar system? You can't control anything. I figure it should be much more like a grand celestial strategic view, heavy on data, with windows for each planet, clearly marked orbital lanes, etc.

Just like the spacebar let you freecam in Supcom to view the 'cool' shots, the focus here should be utility first, coolness as a modifier key. If you WANT to zoom all the way out as a 3d, sure, hold down CTRL and zoom, and there it all is. But make the standard default interface be as powerful as possible.

Paws,
You are right, the Holo view will probably be a bit congested.
However, the intent would not be to work with it zoomed in.
The purpose isn't so you can ID each and every single unit, but rather gain an overview of what is happening. Like if there is a random bomber fleet coming from your left.
Or did something just launch into orbit from the enemy's base.
Consider it more of a broadstroke of "what's going on".

I totally agree.
PA doesn't just build us a map.
It's not just a single world.
It's a solar system!

This is entirely in 3D.
"strategic view" is truly the entire solar system.

You should be able to go from this:


All the way to this:

This is taken from my entirely 3D model with each planets an actual sphere.

Simply from scrolling the mouse and back again.
This can be super heavy on the data as you suggested.


If you jump from 3D view on a planet to a 2D flat projection of that planet,
then a 2D flat projection of the solar system.
You're jumping 3 different types of views.

This is extremely jarring in terms of consistency.

Also, by having a true 3D view, I can go from Planet A, zoom out, spin and zoom in to Planet B, very quickly and very easily.

I'm not suggesting this because it's more cool.
I'm suggesting this because I think it is the simpler, easier and more intuitive view.


It put the use in total control of everything and keeps a consistent control scheme.

The more I think about it, the more I think zooming out to a solar system view is a mistake. Yes, it seems to be a natural expansion of the idea 'strategic zoom' but in the end you do not achieve what is necessary - namely, a 'strategic' zoom! Strategy is all about gathing information and making decisions based on the info - the solar view gives you nothing.

You cannot make decisions in the solar system view - at best it's used as a method to transport your camera between planets. And even then it takes a fair bit of flailing around to precisely pinpoint the planet you want.


And then, look at this screen. Just take a moment to really look at it. What a huge waste of screen real estate! The planets are tiny circles - where do I point the mouse to zoom in? How do I select the moon instead of the planet? Why am I looking at all this black space? What purpose does this serve? Orbits mean nothing in this game, planetary distances are relevant only when transferring between planets, so what is left?

All that is left is a somewhat 'cool' way to transition your camera from planet to planet. Which gets annoying if you zoomed out to get a better view of your planet and ended up scrolling a little too far.


There is nothing wrong with switching your interface to match the job at hand. Strategy & unit control are done on a planetary level, lets make an awesome interface for *exactly* that. At the celestial level we plan multi-planetary tactics. The celestial view should give us tools for broadly modifying our production on a planet, for getting an overview on each planet, and giving us a strategic view of combat across the solar system. A good example is how Homeworld would switch between its tactical map and the combat/gameplay view:


I will try find some time to put together a mockup of a more effective celestial view.