[IDEA] Minimap

I'm not suggesting that the center point of the projection follow the player's camera. So it's not least distorted when you don't need it.

Slightly offtopic,

But would it be possible to fisheye the camera?
So instead of seeing half a sphere right now, we can fisheye it out to maybe 2/3?

You were suggesting setting the centre point to your base, where you least need to be accurately measuring distances because you frequently return there on your main view.

I'm not expert at all (not even amateur...), but here is a basic mockup of how a flat map could be used to better control the battlefield.

This should be triggered by unzooming from the planet. If you keep unzooming, the flat map will be replaced by the actual solar system.

(I'm still a new user, so I can't post links...)
-> [youtube]/watch?v=SnkG5PHXDKE

Did you make that?
Can you elaborate?

Could you define a projection for that?

(Yes, I made "that")

So, the point is :
Zoom is divided into three levels
- Level 1 : The 3D planet level, where you can see your units, orbit around the planet, and issue orders. This is what we have ingame.
- Level 2 : The flat planet level. It's basically the same as the level one, but flat. It's a kind of translation between the level 1 and level 3. You can still issue orders, etc, but this time, you have access to all the battlefield, for the current planet. If you unzoom more, you'll go to level 3.
- Level 3 : Also ingame. here, you can switch from one planet to the other. But thanks to the level 2, you can eaisly have an overview of the planet situation by zooming a bit into level 2, without having to rotate the planet.

Couldn't this work ? : http://footage.shutterstock.com/cli...ceans-and-very-detailed-texture-map-hd-p.html

I LOVE that!
If we get that, we would definitely need a slider to edit the transparency of the planetary features.
That would also be perfect as a way to highlight the metal point around the map!


However, the engine already takes into account lighting effects from the sun.
Would this not seriously mess with the rendering?
aka. Is the art team up for that challenge?

I really think having a global sheet view to be very important.
I would rather this "Level 2" to be a toggle mode for "Level 1".
That way, you can still zoom in further to issue more detailed order.
I think of lot of us might end up wanting to play this way.


How about this for a compromise?
This is Robinson projection.


Instead of having just a single "locked sheet" with a stationary slice. It should be a living projection.
So you can rotate the planet to any orientation, but still be projected the same way, not just be constrained to how the slice was taken. So the pink stuff is your border, but the projection and pan within that shape of projection.

This mean I can focus on Seattle, and it would be the center of this projection like this:





So if this Robinson projection mode was toggled "on", then it would center to wherever I am looking.
If you notice, the grid at the center of the projection is almost a perfect square.
This means wherever we look, wherever we zoom and scroll on this projection, there will be very little distortion.

One of the best things I think that could come out of this would be that if I was zoomed into my base, and I toggled on the Robinson projection, since there is minimal distortion, it would almost be seamless.

It following your position is nice. But i say let them allow multiple window, and lets see how much better it is with a second window zoomed out. Because once i give several orders in advance, i have tons of time to spin a planet around. Since the second window functions, i can give wide orders through it, and i can rotate it. With even more windows, i can have it on multiple planets or one on planet and one in galactic view.

IMO the azimuthal equidistant projection proposed by GoogleFrog is the best option.

Because (as it has been said) their is no discontinuity or cutting edge, and we have only one point which is completely distorted (the opposite center point which becomes a circle).

In an equirectangular projection:

Two points are completely distorted, the north and the south pole which become the top and the bottom lines.

But rather than keeping a fix projection point (even if we could modify it), i would like that the projection point follow the camera, because an user is interested by having good intel at the place is looking at.

Note, that i'm not really interested by having a minimap, i would prefer that the entire main view turn into a projection.

im not exactly all for adding a minimap but whatever you use DONT USE WHAT SPORE USED. that thing was confusing beyond any form of redemption

There is a a lot of talk here about how a spherical map can be made 2D, however, I personally feel that a mini-map in the sense that everything that is on the main screen is replicated onto a smaller one is somewhat redundant. I'd rather see the efforts directed to providing more information in the main planet view rather than defaulting to a standard RTS mini-map.

What's stopping alerts to action on your specific planet from being painted onto the planet directly. For example if an army that has not been in combat for a specific length of time engages an enemy, a red arrow is painted on the surface at the edge of the planet/screen that points to it. Or your scout discovers a new player, a blue arrow. You can then scroll to each event or press a key to respond the respective alert and snap to it immediately. A similar system could work with pings from other players. Further, I feel that the issue of getting an overview of the planet quickly could be solved elegantly with a hot key to instantly rotate the planet 180 degrees. Scroll out so that the whole planet is in view, tap the rotate key a few times and you've seen the entire planet surface in a short period of time.

In my opinion, the mini-map should give you a general idea of what is going on across the whole solar system. A simple map that is essentially a copy of the system editor view, with the plain planet skins and everything. If something happens on a planet it flashes in the mini-map (i.e. red flash for combat, blue for discovery), ccompanied with a sound to get your attention. A click on any planet will move the camera to that planet (as if pressing the comma key right now), while a double clicking a planet will instantly snap where the last alert on that planet originated. Clean, concise and responsive.

I stopped enjoying playing Starcraft because you basically watched the minimap 80% of the time because it provided better a better overview of the map. I want to be looking at the planets themselves and see the relevant information and have a minimap for things that can't be shown on the planet directly.

Alerts are really cumbersome. Each one takes up quite a bit of room when compared to a minimap and there is no good way to filter relevant information from irrelevant information. It will also be hard to judge distances of alerts that happen over the horizon.

I supported the idea of having a smart alert system rather than a minimap. But more i play more i'm convinced a flat map where you can see the whole planet is necessary. It could be a minimap or the main view (personnaly i prefer the main view since we can zoom out so quickly).

At the beginning flatten the map make me sad because it looks like it kills the idea of having planet. But actually the perception of the map doesn't impact the fact that the map is spherical. And a spherical map is not a brillant idea because it looks like a sphere, it is a brillant idea because it is a sphere (there is no edge, you surround your enemy, expand in every direction, attack by the back etc....).

So don't be sad to flatten the map, the gameplay still innovative and exciting !

Sorry GoogleFrog, I'm not sure what you mean. If an alert is painted onto the planet you're already looking at, with transparency set such that you can still see under it, how do you see it taking up any extra room? As sarcastic as that question sounds its really not meant to be!

I agree that filtering relevant information can be difficult, however I feel that this can be overcome by making the alert system less spammy and more intelligent. Like the example I gave where a group of units have be out of combat for a period of time before engaging in combat again for the alert to register.

The problem with judging distance I feel is countered by being able to instantly rotate the camera 180 degrees. You'd be able to see it's absolute position in a 1 or 2 button presses, rather than worry about it's distance relative to your view.

If the mini-map is used as a method of providing more information on your current planet, how do you suggest that solar system-wide information is presented to the player?

I think our opinions on that may differ drastically! There is no way I'd want them to trade the spherical planet view for a flat map, even if it did still act as a sphere. I have absolutely no reasoning for preferring it other than the aesthetic novelty. But I have played so many RTSs on flat maps that playing on a sphere feels so refreshing, I wouldn't sacrifice that feeling for all the tactical information in the world.

Additionally, I personally feel that you can take in infomation on the whole planet just as fast if you had a way to manipulate the camera position faster. Holding the arrow key rotates planet slowly - holding a modifier and pressing the key will rotate it 180 degrees, holding another modifier; 90.

I don't want to force people to play on a flat map, i want to be able to play on a flat map. Sorry if i wasn't clear.

Oh, I see. My apologies. I agree! Choice is always a plus in my book. The difficulty then becomes how do you make those choices equally viable? Is it fair that a player that plays on a flat map be provided with more immediate information than someone who prefers the look and feel of playing on a sphere? Because if one method is superior tactically you are kind of 'forced' into particular choice if you want to be competitive.

When I said that I personally wouldn't trade the spherical view for more tactical information, there is of course the caveat that it wouldn't also put me at a disadvantage! It's a tough nut to crack, for sure.

I agree with your concern, but i don't have answer. Valuable tactical intel vs Aesthetic spherical view... Of course someone who want to keep the spherical view will be disadvantaged. It is an interesting question, do the player have to adapt or the game ? a vast question.