A possible alternative to multiple factions

There are a lot of things they could do to the forum to organize it IMO but instead we got this.

Mike

I just hope there will be different skins.

I like that there is only one race, NO BALANCE DEBATES!!!!!!!!!! HELL YESSSSS!!!!!!

I think the bots are diverse enough that you will see plenty of different strategies even between two players.

That is still an expensive Art bill to foot, it's not likely at all to be honest.

Mike

But client side mods (or even community created content) is very likely.

Yeah, but that's not the same thing now is it? Besides, a Client side mod would effect everyone's units in all likelihood.

Mike

Man, you are just Debbie Downer. A Discouraging Delores! I'm sorry you think something as simple as skins can't be done. It doesn't have to be priority, or even during beta or after release (I didn't expect it). But how games are these days, I think it's extremely likely to come out as post production dlc.

He didn't say it can't be done. He just said it not likely.

I'm just head to temper all this idealism with reality, I never said it can't be done, but you need to realize that Uber is working with a very small budget for a game of this size, and with all the work that needs to go into the technology to make it possible(ie the Game Engine) it's very hard to justify the addition of cosmetic factions, especially when the part of the point is that everyone gets the same units which also makes things like post release unit additions much easier, and the longer it gets put off the more expensive it'll be.

One also needs to consider the work that goes into designing the aesthetics and such too, making a unit look "different" is easy, making a whole faction look uniform and ensuring that the design is such that units are easily readable is much harder. That work gets even harder the more "factions" you want to add because they all need to stand out and be sufficiently unique from all the other "factions".

Just because it sounds easy, doesn't mean it is.

Mike

Alright this is pointless.
1. the entire faction doesn't need to change.
2. Post production doesn't become more expensive. Ever work as a coder or dev? Those guys have a LOT of time on their hands (not now of course) and most of the time will make new skins just because.

Think halo. Some armor looked like crap, or just goofy. People still use and like it. If you play more than one game, I don't understand how you can't see this happening. People will want it, and if the devs want to sell it, they are going to make it. Simple as that.

This is a simple statement to make, but doesn't apply here. Coding doesn't sound easy to someone who doesn't code. To someone who DOES code, new skins are just tedious. In this case it sounds difficult, but is actually nothing. It shouldn't be worked on in the beta, but a slow release of skins with post prod patches is very, very likely.

Programmer =/= Artist.

Also if players want it so much they have all the tools to be able to do it themselves and have it only display for them and not change the game for everyone else.

1] Then that's even worse because it seriously messes with unit readibility, even more so as you start mix and matching different skins with different units.
2] You didn't understand what I said, It's not that Post Production work is magically more expensive, but if Uber is to create Cosmetic factions, it's more expensive if there is more units, so if there are for example 100 units at release, if they wait until they've added 50 new units before they do a Cosmetic Faction it's 50% more expensive than it would have been if they did it at/for release. That's also not counting the pre-production work they need to create the aesthetic either, which would be fairly constant.

The Halo comparison breaks down because it works on a completely different scale and gameplay than PA. In Halo it doesn't matter what you look like, you can always access any weapons you want or whatever, you can't identify what a player is doing based on thier armor, but in PA it doesn't work like that's a unit's capabilities are constant, so beign able to recognize them visually is important.

Mike

What was the figure quoted by GPG when creating heroes in Demigod?

Was it $10,000 each (if I'm wrong, please link me a source and I'll update this)?

That's a couple months of pay for me. Just for one unit.




And people want skins for all their units?

If it makes business sense for Uber to do it, I'm sure they will. But if it doesn't make business sense, then for the love of all that is good and holy, I hope they don't make extra skins and models.

That's news to me, I wasn't aware they ever broke it down like that.

But it's not unreasonable, it might even be too little. While not directly comparable, look at how much it costs to create a character for Skullgirls;

Like I said, not directly comparable for a single unit, but when you start looking at doing new artwork for all teh units it adds up really quick and there is more to it than many people give it credit for.

Mike

No it doesn't, at all. We're not talking about a 100 different skins for every unit. We're talking about 4 or 5 (maybe). It's not so hard to remember what the units look like, learning what units can look like with different skins will be no more difficult.

But how does that apply to halo? As I said, it's a fundamentally different approach.

Also it's easy to remember if maybe a single unit has 4 or 5 skins, but what happens when 50 units have 4 or 5 skins?

Mike

Because with halo, you're talking about one unit. With PA, you're talking about 100.

Halo had one unit with 100 skins, PA will be 100 units with a couple a piece. Like I said, they don't have to make skins for every unit.

Take SC2. They've made skins, but only for the factions' core units. Units in PA that have been found to be necessary for combat (like the bot and anti-air fighter) should get a couple skins. Potential buyers want some substance with what they buy. If they see a game like PA with which they are able to diversify themselves with, they will be more likely to buy it. Hell, I bet current players will pay a couple extra bucks for new skins, especially if it comes with an expansion.

EDIT: this is marketing now... I don't want to talk about marketing, so I'm done.

That's a point proving how in-comparable it is. The fact is that the Hale skins don't mean anything, any skin can still use any weapons they want. They also all share the same core elements and Proportions, aside from details they are all the same. But with PA you are trying a units capabilities and Stats of 1 or more skins so Knowing all the skins becomes very important if you want to know what you're actually fighting against.

With SC2 my understanding is that the system is lees Skins and more so an assortment of Add-ons, which is a small, but significant difference.

But now you're delving into a separate and very hotly contested subject of micro transactions, which is a matter for another thread.

Mike

The point of different skins for a new unit would only be aesthetic. You could earn them through rank and achievements. The fact that you would simply need to know what different skins a unit could have would be common knowledge to even casual players. This point is trivial.

They aren't purely Aesthetic in an RTS, In Halo the Spartan Armors are fully cosmetic because you can still use any weapon, but in an RTS Each skin is tied to a specific unit so it matters to a larger degree than in Halo. When you have potentially hundreds of units and you want several units to have multiple skins its hard for anyone to remember it, let alone a new player that doesn't even know such things might exist.

Mike

Imagine a skin for the sword that made it look like a sniper rifle.

That's what skins for units in an RTS game does.