[WILL NOT BE PRESENT] Commander Upgrades

Where the hell did you pull that from? [EDIT:] Gunshin, not ign - who snuck in a reply before my post.

Tanks shooting aircraft is completely independent from micro.

I don't see how they're related at all.





Unless... you think choosing land-based targets and flyings ones is both random, and equally likely to occur. That would be a naive thing to think.

You're entitled to think that, but if you need to choose targets, then the target priority table needs attention (or needs to be implemented).

You dont see how they are related because you dont play the game enough.

There is micro to be introduced if the tanks are terrible at shooting air by one plane flying some of his aircraft over the other players tank army just before an engagement, therefor turning the turrets around and allowing his tanks to get the first shots in easily.

This has nothing about priority targetting due to the fact of planes entering first then tanks afterwards. In a perfect priority system, you will get the same result.

You assume that once a target is picked it stays picked forever (or until the target leaves or dies).

That may currently be the case, but I certainly don't consider that ideal or nice behaviour. I would rather see the units become more intelligent, than limit their abilities because of their lack of intelligence.

I am not assuming they stick to one target at all, how can you not see that turrets facing the wrong way before a battle is a huge disadvantage?

Huge? No.

Some. Certainly.

Still, the problem is intelligence of the unit in question, not the ability of the unit. You want to treat the symptoms of a problem, not the problem itself. SupCom2 had that in spades.

Its only a disadvantage to units with a slow turning turret rate, who will never turn fast enough to keep up with planes anyway.

And if that's a problem....then use AA dude.

The ONLY way around this problem is to give the tanks a larger targetting radius than shooting radius to allow them to correct what they should be targetting BEFORE an engagement. And im attempting to treat the problem of this UNREALISTIC game with a REALISTIC approach. again, its NOT realistic in any shape for tanks to shoot air, it does NOT happen in real life, at all.

There is no other way around this unless your telling me that tanks should be able to choose their target through the fog of war?

This is the entire problem of the argument, if we are being forced into a situation where we need dedicated AA, there is NO reason for tanks to even attempt to target air. You are dodging the issue.

As are you, you haven't even acknowledged that we cant have a simulated projectile game with exclusions!

Tanks are no different to artillery, and you are fine with them hitting air craft, so why castrate tanks from the same ability just because artillery shoots further?

You are blowing this problem way out of proportion as well, as you seem to think that tanks targeting aircraft when there are no land targets will make tanks completely useless.

I have to ask, have YOU played the Alpha? Because I have never seen this chain of events happen in PA or TA where tanks could also shoot at air.

Giving a larger targetting range sounds quite reasonable.

The size of the extra range would be;

Code:

(180 / turret_turn_rate) * speed

Here, speed would be the speed of the fastest land unit you reasonably expect to shoot at.

And reasonably expect is anything you think you should preferentially shoot at before the particular aircraft you're currently shooting at.

There is a difference in what i said about artillary, and the same applies to tanks. Artillary does NOT target air, its projectiles can accidentaly hit air which IS FINE. The same applies to tanks, my problem is with either of those targetting air.

I have also argued the point that there is no middle ground with tanks shooting air, they either blow air out of the sky, or they are so useless at doing it, that it introduces a micro aspect to the game. Tanks SHOULD be useless when there is only air attacking them. The balance should lie in how much damage air do to tanks, not about how much tanks do to air to balance Air vs Ground.

I have played far more than enough of alpha to see that this is an issue, enough to pay for my copy of the game in winnings from tournaments, have YOU?

This game is not TA, it is also not 16 years old with outdated algorithms.

The problem now lies in what is the point of radar? I can only see target priority being restricted to what the unit can actually see a good thing. This is more of a bandaid for a bigger problem.

Btw, im not saying its a bad idea, because you could bring scouts into the mix to increase the sight range which is fine, but it shouldnt work without units that give extra sight range.

Radar still has a use. It'll always be useful for seeing where things are and where things are not.

But yes, it would probably be wise to choose based on targets we know lots of information about (ala. those that have been eye-balled).

Artillery does target air.

And I don't feel like getting into a 'package' measuring contest over our ability to play an alpha.

Any micro introduced by tanks shooting at aircraft is what you have decided that this introduces to the game, where apparent aircraft can move the turning circles of tanks who in a previous patch had the problem of almost instantaneous tracking that allowed them to shoot down all aircraft.

And this game is a successor to TA, with similar projectile simulation that has nothing to do with algorithms, that's not what I was discussing as that's a problem with a priority targeting system, not a tanks apparent lack of the ability to shoot at a target because it is levitated above the ground.

Yeah, i dont have a problem with a larger priority system like this, but it wouldnt even be a problem if tanks could not target aircraft.

Actually the algorithms have evolved, quite substantially too, which allows for far more units to viably target other units.

You sir, did not test whether artillary target air did you? because they dont, none of them. I do not have a problem with artillary shooting at ground targets with a high arc, and aircraft being hit when they collide with projectiles. Thats fine. Not a problem. Same with tanks, if they used a high arc for firing, the projectiles should be able to hit aircraft. But this is no reason for them to be able to target them.

And dont call me out saying i have barely played the game when i can prove that i have played it a lot.

That has nothing to do with my argument, or our discussion, so why are you brining it up when it has nothing to do with what we are talking about?

I have tested it, and no you are correct they don't.

But they should, most defiantly.

And you think that makes you some kind of expert on the matter?

MR.

Your the one who tried to enter a pissing contest. And yes, it does give me a better insight into current elements of the game. If a chess grandmaster came up to you and told you how the game works from their experience, do you ignore that? And yes it is an alpha. But this is an element that will not change until the devs see why it is such a silly design for a unit.

Also, no, artillery should not be able to target air, because that is just silly. how many howitzers do you see shooting down air-craft? Its rediculous to the extent that your trying to argue that tanks and even artillery should be able to target air as realisitic. Its not, in any sense.

Now if your done with your illogical realism reasoning, give me another argument as to why it should stay.

So.......are we going for realism or are we not?

If not then tanks should be able to shoot at aircraft when they are able, if so that would be illogical realism reasoning.

I dont even understand what you are saying anymore. If you have nothing constructive, then stop responding.