I'm not in Alpha, so I don't know what naval warfare looks like presently. But Planetary Annihilation is about the idea that these machines have achieved the apex of destructive capability/technology, correct? Check out the supercavitating torpedo: http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/supercavitating-torpedo It create's an air-bubble around itself, and is propelled using rocket power to around 230mph. I think the submarines and torpedo boats in this game should be carrying something along these lines.
So, just really really fast torpedoes. The main idea behind it is that "Naval officials say the high-speed torpedo will enable submarines to attack enemy subs and surface ships without giving them time to respond." So Torpedoes that basically never miss and don't give you a chance to run away. Why exactly would that good for gameplay?
So why are the Basic Subs not using this tech? Why are they stuck with 'normal' torpedoes that are strictly inferior to these supercavitating torpedoes? In a galaxy that has all tech assimilated to the point of complete and brutal efficiency, why are the Basic units not using this tech when Advanced units are? Further to that thought, why are you making Advanced units an upgrade to Basic units? Why are you advocating a system where we get 'T1' and 'T2' torpedoes? And finally, what does an inescapable, no warning sod you in the arse torpedo add to the game in the way of interesting counter-play?
This is certainly one of those 'realism vs. balance' kinds of things. Modern torpedos devastate ships off from one blast (they detonate beneath the ship, the force breaks the keel, and essentially snaps the ship in half). Even if the torpedos travel slowly, I don't see most players micromanaging their fleets to evade them. Submarines aren't there to trade shots with an enemy ship, they're there to hit-and-run. Your best bet against one is being able to detect it and hunt it, not allowing it to get the first shot off. Anyway, a way to balance torpedo strength could be reload speed and being detected after firing (supercavitating torpedos leave a nice streak of air and bubbles pointing to their origin). Your tier 1 submarine could have slow moving torpedos, but a faster reload speed, while tier 2 could have faster torpedos and a slower reload speed. Tier 1 would not expose itself during firing because it doesn't have the 'trail' behind the torpedo. In this way, tier 1 is more suited for sitting in the ocean and harassing ships undetected, while tier 2 would be more suited for destroying a target of opportunity and then high-tailing it out of there. Neither is 'better' or an 'upgrade' they're suited for different purposes.
First of all gameplay over realism. I don't hear you complaining about advanced robots from the future using radar technology founded in the 20th century. I never said advanced was an upgrade to t1. They could be weaker, faster sniping style units that lose in direct confrontations against t1. That is all down to balance and roles the units are designed for. Why not have different torpedos, it adds some unit diversity.
Why would I? They're clearly not using any radar that we're familiar with, and certainly not any kind of realistic electromagnetic wave. Radar is just the name Uber is giving to this completely unrealistic information gathering system, it certainly doesn't resemble real radar. A weaker shot is also generally less advisable as a 'Sniper' weapon as high priority targets in naval warfare are often the largest and most heavily armoured ships. Unless of course you're trying to tickle the battlecruiser to death.
I know you're replying to ZaphodX, but I feel like you didn't read my last entry on submarine type options, as I presented a different idea. So I'm going to restate and add to them: Type 1: Suitable for sea harassment, as a special detector is required to target this vessel. Larger submarine — higher health Slow moving torpedos Faster reload speed Does not reveal itself when firing Type 2: Suitable for eliminating high-value targets (sniper-like vessel) Smaller submarine — lower health Fast moving torpedos Slow reload speed Reveals itself when firing (supercavitating torpedos leave trails behind them) Perhaps fires in a burst in order to get enough damage on target? Type 2 is not an 'instant kill' option, because all the torpedos in a burst would need to hit. If you didn't line up your submarine properly to aim at the broadside on your target you may not hit with all, and thereby may not score a kill. These two styles of submarine fill two different play-styles/strategy types. This allows for deeper strategic offerings to naval-based gameplay and more gameplay options in general. I don't know how much damage either ship would have to do, or how this might effect balance, but the idea gives more depth to naval strategy, and that's what this is all a-boat.
You just need to look at Torpedoes as underwater missiles, we won't have just 1 or even 2 types of missiles, there will be plenty and while Torpedoes have some unique aspects such that we can't treat them exactly the same as missiles but there are still many of the same 'balance levers' as missiles, things like speed, acceleration, turn rate, 'wobble' damage, AOE and even a few more. There are lots of ways you can do interesting types of Torpedoes without there being strict 'upgrades' inherent to them. Imagine a Torpedo that only supercavitates over the last 10-20% of it's range but then can't track anymore, you have a Torpedo that is great against stationary or slow moving targets and can maybe ignore/evade/ anti-torpedo systems. In the long run we could have almost as many different torpedoes as we do units that use them, so there is no point trying to say 'Basic units have X Torpedo while Advanced units have Y Torpedo" when we don't have to and it's more than likely to be all the worse for gameplay. Mike
Knight: I like it! Which opens the door to more torpedo-ready systems. Underwater or land-based torpedo turrets? (Launching torpedos into the water has been around a long while). Also, because this game is all about excessive destruction, a nuclear torpedo would be pretty cool too: Or in color (fast forward to 0:37):
The more "realism" type suggestions the more i roll my eyes. And i'm a big sucker for realism. As a more general reply to the topic: yes torpedoes are missiles and can have many properties that can be modified for cool results. This can be anything. Speed vs power is a common one: we could have torpedoes that can easily be dodged but are devastating, or quick ones that don't damage as much. In general, i think supercavitating torpedoes are only interesting as unguided-but-fast long-range torpedoes.
mmm. I think i just committed an epic fail. EDIT: changed my post. I think i was about to reply to your post but changed my mind and forgot to alter the quote.
mmm. I think i just committed an epic fail. EDIT: changed my post. I think i was about to reply to your post but changed my mind and forgot to alter the quote.[/quote] Das cool then. Mike
I wasn't so much espousing that this game be realistic (clearly it's taking many liberties in the name of epic destruction). I was propositioning the idea of more torpedo types, and citing a current technology for those who would not be willing to suspend disbelief towards an underwater rocket. There's no need to suspend disbelief towards a technology that exists. Whether it behaves like a 'real' supercavitating torpedo is not particularly consequential.
