HMD + position tracking (Oculus Rift + Hydra) demo for RTS

I think this would be great for PA

https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=4026&hilit=rts



Not crouching, just leaning forward and backward on your desk to zoom fast and intuitive.

I'm so tired of oculus rift stealing the press from Leap Motion. Especially on the PA forum. How is the Oculus Rift anything new for PA? wow you just see s hit better. 250bucks of goggles and a 300buck graphic card upgrade to that.

for 80 bucks you can instead get something that revolutinizes the way you concieve playing an RTS.

Also use search :

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/oculs-rift-for-pa.43100/page-3#post-764353
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/leap-motion.49884/

Thank you. I used search and didn't see what I posted anywhere, though it might have escaped me in which case I apologize.

This thread is about HMD+positional tracking and its application to RTS in general as well as a very impressive and recent RTS demo using Razer Hydra and Oculus Rift in particular. The thread is not about the Leap Motion. I don't see how one could build something like this demo with the Leap. No offence, but do you actually have access to the hardware (Leap, Hydra, Oculus) or at least know the specs?

Btw, the Oculus Rift is, so far, not a commercial product and Oculus hasn't announced a price yet. The price you state is for the developer version. Other than the Leap Motion guys, Oculus has been very open and honest about what and when deliver as well as what the current and future limitations are. In my humble opinion, Leap Motion did not deliver what they promised and released an unfinished product, marked as consumer ready. It even seems, that some features which were demoed early on, like the hand point cloud, are actually not achievable with Leaps hardware. Just my 2 cents. Personally, I don't really care about the price at this stage.

Back to topic. Anyone else thinks that Teddy0k's demo is genius? Any ideas on how to extend it?

yes I own a leap motion (paid 60$ (preorder)) 80$ is indeed for retail, not developper, and you must have followed none of the links I posted or the links therein.

they might release the hand point cloud later but so far you do have 100% what they promissed, that is 100th of a millemeter precision on a 150° field of view 200 frames per second and 40cm high FOV.

I looked at your Leap+PA demo. Its really cool. Respect. But obviously the Hydra demo here is doing something else. I don't want to get into a fight over the Leap Motion. I would like to focus on the demo posted here. There are many ways to achieve this with different hardware, but it sure does require 6 DOF tracking of the head. If you see a way to reproduce Teddy0k's demo with the Leap I am happy to listen.

I'm just not seeing how you can make the oculus rift useful in PA competitive gameplay. let alone PA gameplay.
let me list it:

• right click
• left click
• scroll click
• scroll wheel
• shift
• ctrl
• W
• A
• S
• D
• ←
• ↑
• →
• ↓
• N

15 things you cannot play PA without, not couting plenty of things that are essential such as "T", "ctrl+N".... ect

I soooo can't understand why people are so pumped for this kind of input for RTS games. I can understand that Occulus rift and stuff like that can be GREAT for RPG games and the like, if they should find solutions to problems like being able to walk naturally. But RTS? seriously?

Mouse + Keyboard are super crazy effective: They allow complex input in a fast manner without requiring the user to use much physical strength. They can be operated for hours without exhausting the user.

Now I am trying to imagine how exhausting it is to lean forward/backward all the time just to control the game.
Or worse swing my hand or my whole arm around to send a command to leap motion.

Not to mention that I like changing how I am seated sometimes, so a system that forces me to move in a specific manner would force me to sit in some specific way.

thanks cola_colin.

heeeeey

Man, don't derail a Rift thread with your LeapMotion fetish, tatsujb. They're different things. Come back when someone makes a LM RTS interface, I'd be genuinely interested in seeing how that would work.

OP's vid looks neat. Makes me wonder how the sense of scale varies between the crouching view and the standing view. Mainly the in-game IPD thing, as per this XKCD comic. I don't know if smoothly changing the IPD in-game would cause motion sickness though.

that's what I'm doing, check out gamewave, it works for starcraft II on pro-level play.

PA however will require some direct work from Uber to have a decent Leap interface, this is why I'm making noise. the fact that the playzone is sheric requires some new interface inputs. pointing aid would also be nice. and a decent zooming in and out mechanic. as well as modifiers for shift and ctr.

-Oculus rift sucks for rts ill take a monitor over a rift any time when playing rts.
-I dont want to control my rts with stuff like leapmotion. Mouse and key pwns those.
-New graphic card to run the rift? Even budget cards can currently run games at 1920x1080. HD is pretty much as mainstream as it gets. They even started making ultra HD monitors which will be mainstream in a few years just like HD is now.

At the very least if a rts is going to work with the oculus rift it needs to be designed to work well with it. Not just support it (very different things!!).

follow the links I posted. It's the same as searching, it's essential :

Occulus Rift is essentially 3D-ing games since there is one image for each eye, each image having a different viewpoint origin inside the game.

Sure the rift looks like 3d but that graphic card of yours doesnt have to pump out more pixels than on a HD monitor. Consumer version of the rift will have a 1080p screen so expect pretty much expect same fps as on a 1080p monitor.

I really doubt anything would surpass mouse and keyboard for rts till we get to the point we can play sword art online. I dont see me whirling my arms like crazy to get the apm needed to win a battle.

Rendering larger resolution and rendering two different viewpoints it's not same thing in terms of performance. So nope, Oculus won't have same performance as 1080p monitor in most cases, but it's won't be much slower just because resolution of each viewpoint is low.

Yeah, you're doubling the polygon count on screen. That may not be the bottle-neck, so I'm not saying performance will be halved, but judging things solely by pixel count is a bit naive.

The Oculus Rift also *needs* constant 60FPS, or you begin to get motion sickness effects from the head-tracking not matching perfectly with your brains perception of the scene. It does have high requirements, I won't downplay them. But a lot of bad performing games are poorly optimised and you can make some amazing games without fancy effects, and forcing artists to work without those crutches might end up carving some nice stylised designs into existence.

It's not the best for RTS, it's really optional, but I would really like to see it done anyway since it's so trivial to add to a game, and I want to experience the "watching your toys come alive" feeling that binocular perspective adds.

I don't care about the whole "Leap vs. Rift" bit. I think that this video was frigging awesome and, unlike the Kinect and Wiimote and all that other ****, was actually a really good way to use virtual reality and motion controls to make the player feel different about the game they were playing. Admitably, yes, it was just a castle defense game, but think about Doom. Doom was just a shooter, but it was frigging revolutionary in the technology it utilized and how well it meshed with gameplay.

Doesn't matter what you use, Leap, Rift, the Sixsense, or a combination of those, so long as it is fun and interesting. I watched that video and laughed a little, I thought "Wow, that is a man who is really innovating and using the new technology given to him, and he's having a damn fun time doing it."

I agree with mushroomars, the vid game me the same impression, it's just the "I think this would be great for PA" part that triggered me. I've said it time and time again and I'll say it again, the oculus rift does not have anything to bring to the "PA table" in particular, wheras the Leap even on it's own, given an interface, can revolutionize the way we game starting with PA.

The two are a perfect match, forgive me if I'm calling it now before I have the footage to illustrate this view I have to you (and technically speaking when there will be that said footage there will be no more convincing to do because the only "footage" I can think of is one of a working prototype interface, hence all that I am currently striving for, so I find it hard to understand it when people tell me "you're not showing us").

i have clear ideas of an interface that would work for PA in mind.

I'm going to make graphics of them and start a new thread so give me some time.

as for the graphic update I maintain what I said.

3Ding games takes 1 viewpoint in the game, makes the entire render pass with all of the polies contained in that 1view, applies all the shaders, textures, tesslations... then goes to view point 2 and does it all again. Then each image is shown, first image number one then replaced by image number two on the same screen and the process starts over again. ...this prosses must take under 12 milleseconds. While each image from viewpoint one is being show, the left eye is being covered to prevent sight and while each image from viewpoint two is being shown, the oposite eye is hidden.

Oculus rift instead of showing each image on the same screen shows each simultaneaously to each eye, in close proximity and with a wall between the two, so as to avoid either eye from seeing it's neighboor's image. It is no longer needed to have both images produced and presented in under 12milliseconds, 6milliseconds are sufficient as we have elliminated the need to add speed to make the closing of each eye shutter on the 3D glasses invisible.

yet the production of two viewpoints remain and even if we are presenting them each on half of a 1080p screen (a smaller resolution) and at a smaller rate 60Hz not 120Hz, it is really the production of seperate viewpoints in real time that was so heaftily costly, none of the data used to create image one can be used in image two, the entire rendering prossess has to be done again.
as a result, when your computer could run a game just fine on it's 1080p 60hz monitor, it suddenly has great difficuly when feeding the same game to the oculus rift.
and as comham pointed out above, you may not afford in the case of the oculus rift, to be anywhere far from max FPS, which adversely is just fine to non-noticable on the monitor.

same guy
is what the oculus rift is for. Not PA.
As demonstrated : Rift great for FPSes, crap at RTSes. Leap Great for RTSes, crap at FPSes.