What can we do for the backers?

There was a pledge level giving that kind of access. In fact we've had multiple visits from 10k backers who I will sit down with in my office and show them stuff.

Because those priorities are almost all code jargon that 99% of people aren't going to understand. Most of the work we do is software engineering, not game design. You guys basically have builds in your hands minutes after we play them.

What *important* stuff are you talking about?

2-body: Code was written and is being integrated into the game. Next step is build UI to control the movement of the planets in game. Once that works we will hook it up to units. Nothing else to report it's simply code work right now.

Orbital: several main systems being worked on.

First one you say part of with the nukes which is the ability to construct and launch a missile. That system is being used for the ground based orbital factory. To launch things into orbit you queue things up in the that factory and as each one is built it gets launched.

Second one is using orbital construction units to build things on orbit like orbital weapon platforms.

Third one is the ability to attach units to other units for the lander (this will also be used for transports).

Fourth one is the ability to queue units up to "enter" a building. This will be used for unit cannons, launching landers with things attached and teleporters.

What's in the next patch is NOT KNOWN until we release it. So I can't answer that. Again I thought we were clear on this but apparently I need to just continue to hammer this message home. Iteration. We don't know.

We make builds with whatever is current. We test them. If they pass we release them. If they fail we hold off. That's the process. You guys are playing the same stuff as we are minutes later.

You guys are getting code about as fresh off the presses as anything I've ever seen.

I think I get it. You guys think we are holding out on you and playing with orbital units or something? We aren't. You guys see this stuff right after I do.

Haha no I understand you aren't holding out on us, but I assumed you guys had/have orbital in various stages of implementation wizzing around in the office! It was the various stages of development I'd have liked to see instead of art (or even some orbital art)! I do also understand though that you might not want to show off something until its ready - something like that you just wrote in the post above, about the stages of orbital development, read out in the live stream, would have made it for me personally.

On a side note, because I cant say it enough. Thank you for taking on this challenge, PA is already one of the best RTS ever made.

I can't speak for everyone else here, but it's not just about revealing features. I think most of the people here do actually understand that this stuff just ain't there yet. I'm certainly not expecting you to reveal anything that doesn't exist yet, and anybody here who is is being foolish.

But of the four suggestions I made, only one was about revealing features. The rest were just general communication things. I hoped they weren't unreasonable suggestions because most of them are things you've been happy to do in the past.

Perhaps my suggestions on this are really just too unreasonable. But I'm not the expert on that. Thats why the more you tell us, the better feedback we can give you, and the less inane stupidity.

Well i have to admit and say this honostly Neutrino, i seriously thought you guys were playing builds quite more advanced then we do, but that might be more of a feeling then an actual fact.

But the things you just said, abit of inside on what you guys are doing, even if it's coding, you can explain what you're doing, as you did now, and it's satisfying. Why not post these things on the backers forum, it's abit dead in there ^^

Thanks for the sweet update Neutrino!
I'm more of a programmer myself, so even this baby amount of info on what you're working on in the code is great to hear. I think everybody is so stoked about orbital that we get disappointed when it isn't mentioned, no matter how awesome everything else you show is. And that last livestream WAS awesome, and the planets were gorgeous.

I also must admit, I was under the impression that you guys had a super secret dev version that had some orbital stuff in it. I'm not sure where I got the idea from, but I think a lot of people were getting that impression and it was causing tension. I feel a lot better knowing you're not holding out on us! (even though you have every right to).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I envision what you're doing to equate ROUGHLY to building a house:

At first there is a ton of new stuff to see (see is the operative word here). Bulldozers flattening ground, foundations being poured, 2x4s making a skeleton of the house, and siding going up. Its all very dramatic, and has results people can see. It looks like a ton of stuff is happening and its very exciting. This part equates to the work on PA that was done earlier in the alpha. we can see pathing fixes and metal snapping and nanolathe effects and all the other stuff happening and it was really cool.

Now I'd equate what you're doing in this phase of the alpha to the plumbing and wiring going on inside the house. There's not really anything to see, and none of it works until its all complete. Very important work is getting done, but there is little to actually show for it until its finished. But some people just need to hear about the work in the mean time since they can't see it, even if they don't understand how wiring a house works (or making rockets to other planets).

Just to be clear this is *not* the case. The only stuff you guys aren't seeing is stuff I'm also not seeing because it hasn't been checked into the mainline yet. So for example Forrest who is working on this stuff has WIP on his machine but it's nothing you can actually play (otherwise it would be checked in and then released soon after).

You guys basically see stuff hot off the presses. There is no secret internal builds. Basically we do a build, test it and then release it if it works. It's a very tight loop.

Mainly because there are only so many hours in the day. Hence hiring a community manager to take over some of the burden.

Fairly decent analogy. I would say *most* of the work we do is under the hood engineering that people won't understand and don't care about other than the hardest of the hard core. For example one of the major pieces of work in the last few weeks has been huge amount of UI system re-writes that aren't visible unless you are a modder.

Okay then, thank you for saying that. Now everyone can hear that "Hey, it's not ready yet, we can't show you it because it doesn't exist."

Isn't that so much better?

That's all great information! It might not seem like much, but this really is interesting stuff. The fact that you want to hook the unit movement up to the same system that we've seen controls planet movement is already interesting. I had always hoped that orbital units would follow newtonian mechanics, rather than just occupying static locations on an orbital layer. The fact that you are hooking these things up suggests to me that this may be an option you are considering. Obviously nothing is certain, and I understand that you would rather iterate on the concept to see if it works before making any statements, but this is exactly the kind of thing that I like to hear.

Edit: scratch that, I just saw your post elsewhere. Obviously it's not what I was hoping for, but I'm still glad you let us know, and I can understand the reasons behind this choice.

Well thats the issue when they talk too much about systems that are still in flux, it can create expectations and unfulfilled expectations leads to anger and anger leads to anger management therapies.

(Wait, whats that dark force thingie you're talking about?)

Neutrino, maybe it's a good idear to plan in some time maybe every week an hour or less (the time you need) to write a little forum post on the things you guys are working on, like the information you gave today, doesn't have to be a GIGANTIC post, but i think this is what people are trying to express.

I think that would basically explain a lot of the frustration I've been seeing on the forums over the last few days. Everyone thinks you guys are experimenting with builds of multi-planet and orbital systems and just not telling us anything.

Just the simple act of saying you've been working on under-the-hood stuff like what you've described above I would imagine has alleviated a lot of the concerns building up.

At the end of the day, it's because we're all so excited about the game that we're clamouring for any scraps of information you guys throw at us.

I was very much incorrect! Thank you for taking the time to explain, I very much appreciate it .

I am pretty sure stuff like this is why Uber is hiring a community manager.

I thought that's what I've been repeating over and over

Bingo.

I also think maybe I dropped the ball a bit too much on communication because, hey, you guys have the same stuff we do, what's to talk about? I mean literally you guys get builds right after we make and test them. I'm not a fan of talking about stuff that isn't in the game, it's circle jerky to me. We are not "game design document" designers at Uber, we build a vision (in this case the original pitch video) and then start working towards that in incremental steps. You guys right now are seeing what those steps look like, the process is basically the same except you get to play the builds as we go.

I understand. It's just as we can't see what's going on all the time (which I admit would be impossible and more than a little silly), the "circle jerky" discussion is all we have.

Remind me not to say that again.

Thanks for addressing our concerns, and I look forwards to seeing a community manager around when you find someone who fits your criteria.