Monetizing mods

I find the discussion between garat and bmb interesting. While I can't cite directly, I remember the gist of some relevant information from reading Sway and Predictably Irrational. Here are some links that the people in this thread could find interesting and maybe help their argument:

http://robertnielsen21.wordpress.com/20 ... ial-norms/

http://io9.com/5984475/how-do-you-get-s ... m-to-do-it

Monetized mods would not be good especially because it is harder to get mods that way

If you are unwilling to pay for them, then yes, they will be "harder to get"

The ease with which they are acquired from the mod market has NOTHING to do with whether you have to pay for them or not unless you are unwilling or unable to pay with a credit/debit/bank transfer.

If that is the case, then that is either your own fault, or unfortunate. Mod Makers are under no obligation to charge for their mods. They do so at their own risk.

There is nothing inherently wrong, neither ethically nor legally, with putting the power in the Mod Makers hands to charge for items, objects and code they have legitimately created.

None at all.

The only possible "bad thing" that could happen is someone trying to present content that they did not develop and charging for something they didn't create. At which point it is reported, taken down and the charlatan is banned from monetising any future content they upload.

Simple.

the only problematic issue with paid mods I see, is that it makes online game choices a bit harder. For example, it complicates or prevents on the fly installing of mods, when you join a game with people who have different sets of mods (paid, free) installed, in particular on private server, which doesn't do account checking with the official servers. Even on official servers I wouldn't like price tags (the difference to your mod set) on games you have to pay in advance before joining.

Don't get me wrong, I am willing to pay a fee for a mod if the quality/quantity is reasonable for the given price, but I need more information than I would get in a game lobby, e.g. the proposed mod market.
It just complicates the integration into the game, at least for the paid stuff - just something to consider.
(if an on the fly integration isn't planned anyway, then never mind )

If anything, Mods should be more prelevant with PA, partially because Modding is so openly supported and encouraged by Uber. Especially if they really work to promote it to players, SupCom had some great mods, but most players didn't even know the game could be modded! 'Legitimizing' mods by Having a selection of really good Mods available in the UberStore can really help to to let players know that there are mods available.

Mike

Adding to that thought knight, a rudimentary unit editor would be a boon to casual modders. Zepilot from FAF made one for himself and it's really easy to use.

http://www.faforever.com/forums/viewtop ... t=1579&f=2

Veta, that that touches on a completely separate topic, one of which I have many opinions on, but this isn't the thread for that, but in short;
A unit Editor/Creator isn't as beneficial to the Mod 'Ecosystem' as it is to people who can't mod.

Mike

You're right this isn't the thread for such a discussion. I would say though you may be underestimating the value of such tools especially given the success blizzard has had with them.

On topic:
The GPG mod vault seemed well implemented. It's been years but I don't remember anything particularly wrong with it. The monetization of user content is something that even Blizzard hasn't worked out - and their mod communities will likely always dwarf PA.

It was pretty good, it still had some glaring short falls, mainly the lack of auto-download on join for mods, and somewhat tangentially related is that mods were only listed(and you had to go and check yourself) once you joined a lobby. Of course, SupCom was leagues ahead compared to many other modable games in regards to the popularity of mods, but there was still so much that could be done as well.

This is why I really hope Uber can push mods from the "Oh hey I learned this game has mods when I visited the forums and accidentally scrolled down too far" tot eh point where players are exposed to it from within the game itself. Uber is already making great strides in this regard by telling fans there WILL be mods and that players CAN create content and using it as part of the hype, but this kind of thing needs to carry on well past launch hype in order to help secure PA's wanted longevity.

Thought that is also a slightly separate topic, but still relevant.

Mike

Automated map and mod download on join would be outstanding.

A page description for mods in-lobby is another way to integrate user content. In StarCraft 2 I often used the game information page.

Here's an album demonstrating game information:
http://imgur.com/a/8sRJ3

lol knight you never had to deal with uploading to the GPG vault... If anything that was its biggest fault :lol:
The thing was painful & picky as heck on what it would accept as a valid upload, slow as heck (granted Blackops was a massive mod), generally required multiple attempts, and had no real hash checking so the only way to make sure the upload worked properly was really do re-download your mod & test it.

On topic, my personal feelings on mods for money is that its a pretty big double edged sword. On the one hand, yes it would be nice to get some income out of what, at least for me, is a hobby. On the other hand you can pretty much throw patience out the window when it comes to your fan base. "I paid for this so where is my hotfix/update" will probobly become the biggest complaint. And ignoring those types of complaints can kill your rating/popularity enough to make your income rather short lived.

I don't have a problem with it being an option... as long as it stays optional, which seems to be what it sounds like it will be if the option is included

Ultimately this is going to be up to the people making the mods. Do you want your mod added into the core game and sold as extra content? That's up to you. If nobody supports the program then it won't happen.

I for one welcome the idea that we finally have a way to compensate all of the time that people have put into this over the years.

I don't really understand the attitude that commercialization somehow cheapens the mod community. If you want to argue that feel free but we are going to continue executing on our plans.

The hate I think mostly comes from the fact that microtransaction systems have ruined alot of games lately so people tend to blow it out of proportion before they have a chance to see how it functions in a new environment.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing what you come up with but I think it would be at least a year or two after initial game release before any high quality mods, or at least ones people would willingly pay for, start showing up. Even with developers interacting with & helping the community figure out the mod systems sticking points. Most modders will still be testing the waters for at least that long making sure they can really do what they want

I think part of it will be adopting a new mindset, for both Modders and Buyers.

For Modders, The oint at which a Mod is ready to Monetize is the point where it shouldn't need content updates. Maybe some Balance/Bugfixing type stuff thought may be needed and should be anticipated(by both the Modders and Uber when creating the system).

For Buyers, they need to see Monetized mods as 'Complete', similar to what was mentioned above. By Purchasing a mod they aren't so much supporting the mod itself as much as the Creator after the fact.

There will be learning that needs to take place on all 3 sides(Creators, Uber and Buyers) and there will be rough patches, but that's no reason to give up either!

Have some faith in yourself! ;p

Mike

Well, my apprehensiveness on the subject comes from the potential monetization of certain essential mods. Mods like the Gaz-UI became a community standard in FA, but suppose the creator had decided to monetize it? There goes a fundamental mod that wouldn't gain the support it should because it isn't free.

Don't get me wrong. There are mods that I don't think I would object to being monetized, but those would tend to be full conversions and the like. Garry's Mod, DayZ, and DotA are examples of mods that I wouldn't object to being monetized, although in DayZ and DotA's cases, I'm not sure they would have caught on so quickly had they not been free. And really, a lot of TA's longevity depended on free total conversions and balance mods, such as Uberhack.

In any case, I can safely say that any mod that I make for PA will be 100% free and as open source as I can make it.

Just so you realize I don't have any objection to people giving their stuff away. I expect most mods will continue to be free.

On the flip side I think you are ignoring the fact that by charging for these mods some of them will be able to get a lot more love and attention from their creators. I would hope that a popular one would generate enough income to allow some of you to transition to working on this stuff full time.

I believe the response is going to be along the lines of "vote with your wallet". If there is a free mod that does 80% the features, and one that cost some money with the remaining 20%, well the market will do it's thing and tell us what people are willing to pay for.

It'll take a bit, but at some point we'll see what the community feels is worth paying for and what isn't, and we'll all have learned something. I'm assuming that free mods and modders asking for donations (like you could really stop that bit) are still going to be options, so at the end of the day this is giving the modders more options.

edit: missing a word or two

I would love to try working full time on on supplementing content for PA! Here's hoping the game gains enough of a community that it becomes a viable option

Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly for or against the monetization aspect just yet. I can definitely see a lot of potential in the idea, and the reasons I like it are right in line with yours. But at the same time I'm wary about the potential problems that could surface, which is why I'm hesitant. If none of my concerns come to fruition, then I'll be more than happy to have worried about nothing.

And I know Uber will support free mods. I figure the system will be something like the Android marketplace, with both free and non-free addons, as well as a simple system to keep everything updated and organized.

In any case, I'll just wait and see before I make any judgment.

It isn't possible for microtransactions to function without ruining the game. Microtransactions inherently changes the way the game has to be designed. It stops being a game about whatever it was about before and it starts being a game about paying for things or grinding for them. That is the nature of the beast. It cannot be changed.