The Politics Thread (PLAY NICELY!)

Leviticus is pretty supportive of what we view as crimes today (rape).

We don't ban that, for the same reason Mein Kampft is important. It can look atrocious all on it's own, it don't need any help.

I never knew the LGBT debate could be about anything other than homophobia. I've literally NEVER seen someone say "LGBT are rapists" or "LGBT are pedophiles" this must be an edge-case.

Apparently the guy thought it was different, although we seem to be thinking of different people. Not that it matters much though

Hitler commanded an entire nation. He didn't just 'murder' 6 million people, he had them destroyed like cattle, or less than cattle. I don't see how or why this compares to the actions of a few terrorists, or how this justifies a ban on a billion people's religion. I mean, i don't see anyone claiming all Christians are pedophiles. Yet a bunch of priests most definitely were and covered it up as well. Clearly when it comes to christianity, the actions of a few don't dictate the rights of many, yet when a few muslims do bad things, it's all of them to blame.

I'm not a big fan of religion, but can we at least hate/love it for the right reasons?

Germany bans Mein Kampf, and pretty much anything Nazi-related. It's something to do with their culture being so horrified by their past actions they want zero chance of it ever happening again.

And before people talk about the "liberal Merkel" and how she's "ruining Europe", she leads their conservative party. She's not a fan of LGBTQ rights. She's not a liberal in any sense of the (bastardised) word

Like cattle, you say?

Like, they were beheaded or something?

Yeah, extremist muslims definitely don't do that. /sarcasm

No, we shouldn't ban a religion. We shouldn't ban Mein Kampft either. To claim both are so dangerous they need censorship, is in direct opposition to the concept that people can learn from negative examples.

While certain contemporary extremist groups probably would like to repeat the kind of horrible things that happened back then none have come close to what Nazi Germany did and these comparisons are absurd.

We are learning from negative examples. The dark past of Germany is an important chapter in various school subjects, history and German culture studies, etc.
I've gone through that school system and I tell you it's definitely setup to learn from that negative example.
There is no need to present Hitlers viewpoint on things however. Especially not through his own warped reasoning/propaganda. Instead of focusing on his insane justifications the focus is on the consequences: Millions of people being slaughtered on an industrial scale.

But how did the consequences come about?

He was insane?

Okay, so we just need to not elect insane people.

We can just elect very talented candidates with humble backgrounds as liberal arts drop-outs into politics. If they make good points, the points must be good, because we've never personally seen any poor examples of good rhetoric for bad actions. /sarcasm

We've entirely beyond argument proven Hitler to have been the most undeniable example of horror. It's not like Mein Kampft can actually be used as a working model of racist ideology. I say, if everyone claims "everything I say sounds like cases that don't happen", then I'd have to see evidence of any successful group still trying to use Mein Kampft as an operational manual.

The many many hours in school this is talked about are a lot more detailed than what I am willing to write here.
It's also a lot about not just Hitler himself, but the many other factors that made his rise to power possible. He didn't commit this atrocities alone, he had an entire nation help him after all.

Which is exactly why Hitlers personal crazy-talk might be interesting to some historian or such, but is unlikely to be of high value to teach about the mistakes the entire nation made that let to the horrors of the holocaust.

I think the schools are doing a pretty good job overall in trying to teach about all of this after going through that system.

Also the reasons for a ban on such a thing as Mein Kampf are not really the content. If you want to read disgusting **** full of hatred you can find plenty of that all over the internet. Try /r/T_D or the likes. No.
The book has a way higher value in terms of symbolic power. It's the manifest of Hitler basically. It's not that it can make a random person into a Nazi, but it can help neo Nazi groups to ... I am missing a word. Bond? over their common ideology.

Also, I just confirmed that the book is not banned in Germany anymore. Critically annotated versions are easily available on amazon Germany.
In fact I think it never was really "banned", rather the state of Bavaria held the copyright until recently and refused to let anybody publish it in Germany.

What is banned is Nazi propaganda. You probably can see how Mein Kampf easily can be seen as such. Hence all versions I could find on amazon had critical annotations.

That t is completely out of place there. The word is Kampf.

TFW someone firmly against the nazis, is a grammar nazi.

Gomen Nasai, aren't German-As-First-Language. Neither is Tatsu I hope.

For anyone keeping score outside of the left-bias and forum-moderatorship, let the record show that Mein Kampf is a Proper Noun i.e. other languages reference it by name whether they're German or not, which is unfortunate for them, AND that Colin corrected me when the first reference of it's name in this thread was Tatsu and he spelt it wrong.

Which left me with one instance of spelling, to learn a proper noun, that no way in hell spellcheck was going to catch in another language.

But yeah, shame on me and my illiterate arse. Seems like all Donald Trump supporters are illiterate rednecks, it makes them so ignorant and undeserving the right to vote or own property. /sarcasm

Publish is probably the better word, rather than "publicize". Both come from the Greek root word, Pubic, meaning "show everyone". /terriblesarcasm

@thetrophysystem Why are you so angry over such small things as a misplaced t?

I think that last year, the copyright ran out and so they were forced with either letting it run out (in which case it would enter public domain), or they could reprint it heavily annotated so it stays firmly in their hands. They chose the latter.

People play the "nazi card" against germans all the time, so it's no surprise that they're firmly on the safe side of dealing with their legacy.

The last time people learned from negative examples of Nazis, a lot of people died.

You really don't seem to understand the cost to human lives, in your theoretical abstractions about the unlimited freedom of speech.

I didn't mean to imply you're stupid for not knowing how a word in a foreign language you don't speak is written, I just thought I'd tell you about a constant mistake you're making.
No need to be so offended about it.

Also I didn't immediately correct you or tatsu, as at first I thought it was a typo. But you kept making the exact same typo for a bit too long

So in other news the healthcare bill got worse and four more russians were in the Don Jr. meeting when he said he had revealed everything this time. he lied AGAIN.

You mean it died?

no, not yet, unfortunately, but right about now it's in dire need of obamacare

the unfoldings of the don jr scandal :

German media calls it "failed" as it'll be only tackled again in 2 years. Somehow I doubt it'll go any better for them in 2 years. They had much more than that to prepare already...

The bill that said "Hey we're repealing Obamacare now and replacing it now" is dead. The GOP is now trying to pass a bill that says "Hey we're repealing Obamacare in two years and if y'all could have a replacement passed by that time that'd be great", and I'd say chances are 70/30 that bill fails.

No correlation, between the Nazi regime, and having known of the Nazi Regime. Recorded information, should not be banned, unless it all is.

There's literally as much correlation, between reading a nazi text and killing people, as there is between reading religious text and killing people.

"but the nazis killed people with gas". So did Assad, they say. "But the nazis killed a whole lot of people". The extreme islam is trying it's damnedest to raise the numbers since at least 2001, so with as "few" people Germany are killing lately, at this rate the extremist will catch up soon.

*shrug* Genocide is already illegal x1000000, murder and rape and theft are already illegal, by the person that commit them, so trying to "precrime" by banning things you believe will lead to it, will start with Mein Kampf, and lead to things other people think "cause crime". Guns. Religion. Sexual preference. Which is why we shouldn't be living other people's lives, we can enforce crime without pre-enforcement.

You do, uh, realise, that the Nazi Party of the Third Reich literally read Mein Kampf, right? That is a direct and obvious correlation.

This is why fallacies are dumb. This is why the slippery slope fallacy is incredibly dumb. Some things that arguably need to be censored are not the same as other things that arguably may need to be censored to a lesser extent.

By painting them all as equal things on some kind of linear path, you do them all a disservice. And that's without getting started on the absolute moronic attempt at comparing extremist sects (that masquerade under the guise of religion) to the genocide enacted by the Third Reich.

Exactly. The Nazi's didn't just kill people though. Plenty of dictators have put people against the wall. What makes the Nazi's special is that they considered bullets too good for their "untermenschen" and looked to exterminate a race with industrial methods. A complete death industry was made.