The Politics Thread (PLAY NICELY!)

I was looking up gun rights for defense of other people(turns out they can vary widely state to state), and I saw a hilarious/scary phishing ad. I closed the tab so I don't have a picture. I reopened it and have it running in the background in the hopes it'll pop up again.

"Enter our newsletter to for a chance to win a free gun"
"Yes, I like free things" "No, I don't like guns"

I'm for gun rights, but I honestly hope getting guns never becomes as simple as winning an internet raffle.

Yes, the one thing great about western culture is the ability to make fun of people in positions of power.

However, shows like the daily show and last week tonight more often than not use their comedy as a shield against popular criticism. They are like shrodingers cat with one foot in the world of journalism pretending to be the morally righteous show that sees things their dumb journalist colleagues don't. But when they get things wrong or want to make an editorial position they claim "oh we're just a comedy show". It's a very clever game they play.

The only news satire show with any integrity or intellectual honesty is Bill Maher's real time not only because of the format but because of the host. Stewart used to be good, but he started getting caught up in the fame and the game. And Oliver is just a smarmy brit like a bull in a china shop. You gotta realise that they push a certain political line just like everyone else.

Read widely

I don't think anybody claimed they were neutral.

Do, not, believe, everything, you, see, on, the, internet. Including my posts. ESPECIALLY my posts. "Trust, yet verify."

You require a background check to buy/sell a handgun and most firearms in general legally. You can have an AK mailed to your house, honest to God my neighbor had one he purchased online, semi-auto until he got a fabricated firing pin for full auto. It's NOT legal, not to be delivered in that manner, not to be made fully auto, and not to evade a background check. It just happens.

It is, to my best understanding, very easy to get caught and fined/jailed for selling firearms without background checks, especially if you advertise loudly online or at a gun show. Note, Liberals are stupid ******* idiots and are wrong, you can NOT purchase a gun in person at a gun show. You place an order, the paperwork is pushed to FBI, background check, approved, money exchange, firearm is mailed to licensed gun-store, firearm is picked up with ID, the serial of the firearm is kept in paperwork.

Gun control or not, there are ALREADY gun laws that are NOT enforced. Like having illegal rifles mailed to you, and then modified to full auto. If they enforced existing laws, they wouldn't need new laws, or easier targets (take guns away from everyone, and not the criminals).

I've said it before, sometimes it's not about more or less laws, it's about the WRONG laws. Having gun laws for various limitations, and then claiming they're not enough because they're only randomly enforced, is ridiculous.

You are so ignorant and blind to the failings of the collectivist agenda. How the hell did you get to this point. It cannot be possible for you to be missing basic facts about the failed communist policies of China, the Soviets, and the rest. Not to mention the leech-like socilist policies of Europe that prevent the EU from becoming a true economic powerhouse.

The biggest players CANNOT abuse their power unless the government gives them the ability to do so with regulations and forced monopolies.
It will never happen in a truly free market.
I've explained why, and you continue to spout this bullshit.

EDIT: The military industrial complex is the farthest thing from a free market. Are you that confused?

If we're at this point of honesty I'll throw this back at you. You are so ignorant and blind to so many things. How the hell did you get to this point.

Biggest player = Money = Power = Possibility to screw with new competition in so so so many ways.
That's really easy to understand.

And yet it was created in a nation that prides itself with being the pinnacle of freedom and all that stuff.

I am gonna give you two things that may happen in the next years in this regard:

a) The EU falls apart in a reign of nationalism, anti-socialism, right-wing ****
b) The EU will get its **** together against their new adversary Trump, grow together and pwn the USA even harder than it already does in all metrics that I care about, while Trump will ruin the USA by quite literally building walls instead of windmills.

Being a somewhat optimistic Person I think b is gonna happen.

China is killing us all, to say it in the words of Trump.
And they're sort of still pretty far away from any sort of democratic free market. Much further away than any of our nations.

And you're still apparently incapable of making the distinction what happened in the USSR, in China and what I am proposing.

There are worlds between those things.
It's like me saying that your right-wing views are bad because don't you remember what happened with the right-wing nazis in Germany? That was clearly a right wing fail.


What I am suggesting is a social free market. Take the good from both concepts. Neither an extreme free market nor an extreme central planned economy are any good.

Not really surprising, how often are extreme stances the best ones? Rarely. The world is more complex than that. There is no simple solution.

And while we're at comparing nations:

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4280.html

Germany, a social market economy with a quite leechy social system (mandatory health insurance, free student support money from the state, etc pp) is kinda owning the US.


Anyway every new thing Trump does further reduces my respect for the USA as a nation.
It wasn't very high to begin with, but it's not far away anymore from just another Russia.

EDIT:
Seriously WTF dear America. WTF. Be ashamed and stand in a corner thinking about your actions please.

I just want to say that our ability to sue the government publicly puts us far apart from "just another Russia".

Our president can do bullshit, but citizens have enough political freedom to fight back using the system and win. While I understand your lack of respect for the country probably doesn't extend to its citizens, the country itself still has that.

I didn't think very hard about the exact details of the comparison.
That is an aspect that is less visible to me from an outside perspective as well, so yeah you have that going for you.
Although I'd be wary if I were you, I totally can see the Trump administration trying to take that away from you.

Ofc I am not trying to point fingers at all Americans as people. Strictly talking of the behavior of the USA as a nation, which has not that much to do with the many many millions of Americans who are decent people.

EDIT:
@mered4 , I am wondering, what do you think of that idea of randomly banning people from entering the nation? We've disagreed a lot in this thread, but I am somehow still hoping you agree that it was a very stupid thing to do that hurt lots of good people for no reason except xenophobia?

I think you are overestimating trump administration's power and supporter's agenda. Trump isn't popular even among his supporters. The only reason he won is the mainly white middle class and poor populations has felt disinfrachised by the past administrations. It's tough standing up for the prior administrations policies when you know people laid off bc businesses are relocating to mexico or see your health insurance premiums rises and your hi benefits disappear. Those populations wanted something different. So they voted for someone they didn't completely understand or at a minimum don't completely agree with simply bc he is an outsider.

So what will trump accomplish? Probably not much outside of destroying a few free trade agreements and obamacare (which needed drastic changes anyway), and maybe (big maybe) he will build the dumbest wall ever.

again HOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW is he an OUTSIDER??!??

He hasn't held political office.

I'm not mered, but i feel the need to chime in and say it isn't really a ban in the sense that the media is portraying it and neither is it random in nature. If your premises were true, i would agree with you, but I don't think they are.

The "ban" is only temporarily for 120 days with the intention of allowing improvements to vetting. This very clearly indicates it isn't in any way xenophobic, bigoted, or racist in nature. After the 120 days, immigration will be capped to 50,000 per year, which is basically the same average number of admitted refugees per year under Obama. We also know it isn't xenophobia because Trump has specifically stated that the syrian christian minonrity that faces really absurd oppression in these muslim majority countries will be fast tracked.

As for "randomly banning". Only 7 specific countries are being banned. Countries that are being torn apart by sectarian violence and host a significant muslim extremist presence. These countries also coincedently happen to be the ones that Obama dropped 300,000 bombs on. Regardless of who you think is in the right, it is not wise to open your borders to a country that you have previously bombed as their citizens will tend not to be so friendly towards your own country. Temporarily suspending immigration in order to improve the vetting processes for immigrants from these countries is not only a much more peaceful and humane solution but also a more effective one.

Further, the American courts have shown that they are able to keep presidents in check by suspending the ban from applying to green cards and people that have already been vetted and have visas. This is the proper functioning that their three branches of government were designed to do. The office of president is the crown jewel, but it isn't the entire picture. Trump can and will be kept in check if he over reaches his legal boundaries.

Correlation vs causation. Most if not all terrorists are muslims, but not all muslims are terrorists. Low information thinking with a preconceived notion of a racist or hitler trump has been quick to call this a muslim ban. But if you think about it, it is really more a terrorist ban. Saudi Arabia should also be included in the ban, but I think there are some strong political and financial reasons why this hasn't come to pass. The world is complex.

Your definition of xenophobia and racism really is so far off mine
I am actually sort of lacking a word to describe exactly what I feel is happening. Maybe Islamophobia?

I am not gonna go on about specific points of your reply, you probably can imagine I don't like them. It's hard to resist really, your line of reasoning seems to align with pretty bad kinds of people to me. Some of your views about this "terrorist ban" as you perceive it I'd classify as straight out rationalized evil, as in it makes me feel sick to think somebody might have those views.

I can't help make one snappy remark though:
Most if not all racists support Trump, but not all Trump voters are racist.

You say "most terrorists are Muslims", I say "you need to Google statistics on deaths in the USA as a result of foreign nationals".

And before someone predictably brings up the horrific example of the horrific event that was 9/11, you might want to cross-reference the people responsible and their countries of origin against the countries Trump has hit.

(hint: there isn't any overlap)

(hint #2: the countries not hit overlap with Trump's business interests)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...countries-linked-businesses-article-1.2957956

http://www.npr.org/2017/01/28/51199...ion-freeze-square-with-his-business-interests

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...9ec4b3d09ba_story.html?utm_term=.99518f3208d7

That's not true. Some racist supported Hillary. Most white racist support trump is true.

Edit:
He said "most if not all racist" however he conveniently forgets all other ethnic racists which are a significant portion (but not a majority) of all racist in America.

Edit Part 2:
I am not sure where this muslim/terrorist thing is coming from. You do realize we have quite a few muslims in the US. Many muslims voted for Trump (Muslims in business are against free trade agreements). Its a strange world.

Good thing he said "most" then, huh?

And good thing there are non Muslim Terrorist as well. Lots of them. Some are even Christian. Should ban those as well.

EDIT:

I am too lazy to find a source (you may try google for a very recent US military attack in Jemen) in a language you can understand, but you don't have to use past tense. They're in the middle of continuing to murder random people there. Yes some of them may be terrorists, but murdering over a dozen woman and children to get to a terrorist is no better than putting a bomb in your backpack and blowing yourself up next to random people you dislike.

If they want to hunt down some actual terrorist person than I suggest they go in with soldiers, without any previous bombs and do it in a way that puts the life of civilians strictly above that of your their soldiers. The end result might be "one dead terrorist and a dozen dead soldiers", but that is the price you have to pay and and talk of how "we can't help but murder some innocents in the process" is just pushing away the suffering onto others. Make the dead innocents your own and you're morally fine. But like this it is as wrong as terror attacks morally.

It's so painfully obvious how Trump is pushing the creation of more terrorists. This stuff makes me angry, and I am sitting in a warm and save home far away from all of it. Anybody who happens to be from any country actually directly affected by this is just given more good reasons to hate the US, which is gonna be abused by terrorist organization to do their mind washing.

Honestly question, why dose the rest of the world care about American immigration policies more than Americans? We don't care about eu or Germany immigration policies.

Edit:
Trump isn't bombing aleppo. Trump isnt sparking Muslim conflict by invading iraq. Trump is an idiot but that alone won't create terrorists. Neither will a bad immigration policy.

Don't get to worked up by trump. His power is limited. He probably won't even run in the next election.

Because of the thread title.

Also the US is certainly is quite a powerful and important nation that some may call the leader of the free democratic world with all its supposed values.
So seeing the US continue to bath in hypocrisy up to quite an absurd level probably is a big part in why people feel angry at them.

Also US actions affect the world quite a bit. Oversimplified when Bush decided to declare war on Afghanistan and later Iraq he not only signed a death sentence for 100k+ innocent people in those nations he also caused the terror attacks in France and Germany of the last year or two, among many other things.

Seriously Corgi, do you realize the whole point of my statement is that yes exactly it is wrong on many, many levels. Just like when you substitute Muslim/Terrorists into it.

He has enough power to make the live of quite a lot of people quite a bit worse in the meantime however.

Trump apparently ordered that attack in Jemen.

FYI, Trump has already submitted paperwork to run in 2020.

Please do not make these kinds of posts going "his power is limited" when people are being held without Constitutional access to a lawyer in airports across the USA.

When people are losing access to their healthcare with no current viable replacement.

Please, do not say these things. They do not make you look informed.