The Politics Thread (PLAY NICELY!)

This thread.

Nope. I'm not a socialist. I don't punch people to get my way. I don't get violent cognitive dissonance when I don't know how to handle other people disagreeing with my ideology. Conversation is supposed to be about shared construction of an idea that ends up bettering everyone - I'm not perfect but that's my moral goal thanks to libertarian ideology. I only respond violently to violence.

If they want to be a dummy in a conversation, that's on their own dime for the world to see.

And yes, the comic was about hypocrisy among the extreme left - not only when it comes to trump but when it comes to their racist anti-racist rhetoric etc. "Our love for minorities is defined by our hate of white cis males". If the democrats keep on doing what they're doing, trump is going to end up securing the midterms and another 4 years before stepping one foot into the whitehouse.

The only way to stop trump is to have superior ideas, and the democrats need to reform exactly the same way republicans reformed from the old evangelical GOP. There's a reason why the majority of Gen Z is surprisingly conservative - look at kiwi and xankar for isntance.

*instance

Nice strawman, nice strawman

sad times where that's what we look for : the worst rather then the best.

"oh at least our country isn't on fire!"
*later*
"well.. now at least our country doesn't get cronenbergs for babies!"
*later*
"well at least our rain is only acid and not also lava!"
ect...
...you get the jist

Well these are sad times. When people vote for a golden-spoon-fed billionaire to represent the working class, people need to start asking themselves some serious questions.

My issue with all firm ideologies is once you subscribe to one, you tend to lock your way of thinking into that mind set and then conversing with others (who are also locked into a set of unbreakable principals) yields no progress at all. look back at this thread- you won't admit there are any issues with libertarian ideals, just as others won't admit any issues with liberal or conservative doctrine.

I attempt to not wholly define myself in any specific camp. there are good and bad aspects to all of these ways of doing things- the issue is that life and circumstances for people aren't black and white, and more critically change over time due to external factors.

For politics to work for the most people (and honestly I think that's the only possible 'win' condition, as whatever you do is always a compromise) it needs to be flexible. technology for example had a huge impact on society, the jobs people were needed for 100 years ago no longer exist, so legislation that worked then is unlikely to be helpful now.

Quite a few of the top minds currently are now talking of a future where the majority of existing jobs are fully automated- now if 95% of your population doesn't work (due to no need for them to) how does that society function? none of the current political systems have a valid answer, although I'm certain when the time comes it'll get worked out.

I have a general sense that the system required presents itself when appropriate. Trump winning the presidency and brexit strike me as a balance that should hopefully result in changes... to what exactly I don't know. I'll bet it doesn't neatly conform to any specific ideal though

that's not how it works.

life shifting into a technologically aided phase means jobs should shift into the technological sector accordingly.

I don't know how you came to the above conclusion

The idea is that AI systems may simply become better at "everything" than the average person. So why employee the average person when you can let a computer work for you instead?

Well, libertarianism is more an ideology about ideologies. Believe what you want, do what you want, just don't infringe upon the golden principle of voluntary association and freedom of choice. It's belief in the free market place of ideas. We don't think left vs right, we think authoritarianism vs voluntarism.

Imagine an investment banker trying to sell you a financial product. A libertarian banker will try to convince you of the merit of giving him your money and you can freely say yes or no. A socialist banker on the other hand will pull out a gun and force you to give over the money because it's supposedly in your own interest and that of the 'greater good' to do so, you just don't know it. The difference is structural. Coercion vs voluntarism.

I have no serious problem with socialist hipsters, up until they inevitably start clamouring for the use of violence, typically through centralised government, to force reality into their idealised mould of a golden utopia. If historically and politically naive people want to call that a strawman, they are welcome to explain the mysterious peaceful method by which they foresee wealth being forcibly taken and redistributed. Because peaceful violence is certainly not an oxymoron or anything.

More than willing to admit there are legitimate problems with libertarianism. No-one has brought them up so far though. For instance, there is no foundation on which to oppose animal cruelty - that's just the unfortunate logical extension of any kind of humanist ideology.

You're right about the pendulum swinging back and forth in a sort of balance. The swing to the right with trump, brexit, and soon le pen are all responses to hypocritical modern left being mostly devoid of any ideas beyond identity politics, race baiting, virtue signalling, marxist oppressor/oppressed etc. More and more people just aren't buying it anymore. Instead of the religious right being the moralising tyrant, it's totally flipped and anti-authoritarianism and defense of free speech has ironically become a conservative position. What i hope comes of all this is the left purging itself of the progressive marxist disease rotting away at it's core and standing up for classically liberal positions (I would love to be able to call myself a liberal again).

Unfortunately, it looks like the swing to the right is agitating the silly millennial left further to the left, which will probably make the right more extreme right (dangerous as well). Interesting times ahead. I'm ashamed of my generation, it's up to the next to fix the mess we've caused.

I suppose you mean AIs writing AIs?

We're a tad bit far from that. In the meantime we need humans to write computer code and to engineer things.


so four score and seven years ago ... am I right???

We don't need dozens of millions of people to work in AI development. Most people are not qualified for anything in that area either.

People are absolutely defined by such things. If you don't like a group of people based on their race or otherwise racially-defined culture, you are perhaps a bit of a racist. Or a lot of a racist. This is why the word "racist" was created. To describe people that have those kinds of tendencies, and beliefs that support them.

"nobody's a saint" is also a terrible argument. My friend isn't a saint because he likes to insult people. Someone who isn't my friend is far worse than a saint if he likes beating up homeless people. The word "saint" has a religious context and was invented to exemplify people who followed religious teachings well. It was invented purely as a way to call someone "good" (by the tenets of the religion that used it).

I honestly don't know what the comic was shooting for. As you can see, I tried to interpret it in a more positive light than I otherwise could've. It's interesting to watch different people read into it differently, but even if the comic is mocking Trump supporters, it doesn't even do a great job of that. It's far too ambiguous, and feels like the author isn't really saying any one statement. Intentionally ambiguous, perhaps.

"I don't use physical violence, I just repeatedly imply they're stupid instead. Also SOCIALISM."

If your conversation impugns on the ability of others to speak or feel welcome, that is also a form of violence. Violence extends beyond the physical, as I'm sure anyone who has been bullied and been told "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" understands.

Self-mockery, just like the rest of the comics.

Self-mockery of what?

The artist? That's the only self they represent, you see.

owlturd engages in self-mockery on a constant basis

Well, yeah, exactly! That's the only thing I could think of. But in this case they're obviously targeting some kind of demographic, so I was confused.