Just read reddit...

Discussion in 'PA: TITANS: General Discussion' started by Ksgrip, May 7, 2016.

  1. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

    Messages:
    12,902
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    I'm sorry but I have to agree with the above.

    If it weren't true than humans could still beat bots at chess (it's not even a freakin AI for christ's sake, it's #1 move per given situation could be exported to any format you wanna read it in, I'm certain.)
  2. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,694
    Likes Received:
    3,040
    @xanoxis
    I'm not saying you can't choose to use any of the units - it's definitely much more fun to do so. But when you bring up balance, it has to be constrained not by what you like to build but by what is practically optimal.

    About the map thing, all if not most RTS games allow people to create maps. The new thing PA has done is random generation, which does not overall improve or add value. Nearly every single good map that is frequently played has been created by hand, and if GW pulled from a pool of hand crafted maps it would most likely be objectively better.

    I like watching dota games too. It's definitely subjective what people choose and I'm not trying to tell you what you should or shouldnt like. But when you take the aggregate of the choices of many many people, its possible to get a better sense of what might be objectively true. I'm trying to illustrate that there are markers that tell us PA is a bit sparse strategically, and that shows up in how exciting watching a match may or may not be.

    I've never played settlers though I assume its totally possible to cope with it :p? Multiple different types of resources are definitely more interesting than just one resource like PA.

    It's just having fun games on ladder instead of playing like MLG pro series all the time. Sometimes you end up trolling yourself.

    I'm not sure where i may have suggested otherwise :)
    gmase likes this.
  3. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,885
    Likes Received:
    6,045
    Citation required. You won't have one because this is nonsense, no 32 piece tablebase exists. I'm rather mystified why you made a post so demonstratably wrong.
    cptconundrum, elodea and gmase like this.
  4. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,694
    Likes Received:
    3,040
    I was most definitely wrong to say chess is solved going by the technical definition of it.

    What i should have said instead is that it is heavily dominated by theory that has already been mapped out. Not a proved 100% optimal solution

  5. gmase

    gmase Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    255
    Until you can tell which one wins (black or white), it's not remotely close to be solved. That's why there are so many chess books and not just one.

    I'm quite sure chess has a (and just one) solution but a solution is not feeding millions of matches and rules to a machine and hope it does better than single human mind. A solution is a branch in a tree that always takes me to the victory if I'm white/black (just 1 of them can has the winning path).
  6. ljfed

    ljfed Active Member

    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    136
    I wasn't talking about randomly generated maps, I was referring to the fact that the maps in PA have that biggest affect on gameplay compared to the maps in other games. This means that the variety of custom made maps are probably going to feel very different to each other.

    In other rts games I have played the map only affects minor things because they generally have major features that are common on every map. The main example of this is resource spread. In starcraft the maps are always going to involve CLUMPS of resources and you must expand to one of those clumps. The maps may affect minor decisions and tactics but they all play very similar to each other.

    In PA I think this is the opposite. The size of the map (do i need a lot of air? more vehicles? more bots?), amount of water (when and where do i build naval?), spread, position and rarity of metal (which expansion do i take / send units to defend / attack?) and csg (lots of choke points maybe i need more tanks? open moon maybe more bots?) all have a bigger affect on how you play more than anything else. Some examples are the importance of naval (pacific), a slight importance on naval (amplus), less emphasis on air (forge), balancing naval / ground / air (meso).
    I think playing the map is the most important strategical concept in PA and controls most of the things you do.
    xanoxis likes this.
  7. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,050
    Likes Received:
    2,874
    Oh, I found evidence supporting this...
    Qzipco likes this.
  8. cdrkf

    cdrkf Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,721
    Likes Received:
    4,793
    .
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  9. pieman90

    pieman90 Active Member

    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    99
    Chess is a "solved" game because it has an inherently limited number of possible moves and outcomes and thus is possible to find every scenario and outcome with a strong enough computer.
  10. gmase

    gmase Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    255
    Just change solved for solvable and u got it right. My last post about chess I promise
    stuart98 and mwreynolds like this.
  11. mwreynolds

    mwreynolds Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    294
    No, chess is not a solved game.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solving_chess
    stuart98 and gmase like this.
  12. killerkiwijuice

    killerkiwijuice Post Master General

    Messages:
    3,879
    Likes Received:
    3,597
    So it will be solved in the future. It's not solved right now so it's not a solved game.

    Tic-Tac-Toe is a solved game.
    stuart98 likes this.
  13. xanoxis

    xanoxis Active Member

    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    238
    This man speaks the truth. That's one of the things I meant.
  14. Ksgrip

    Ksgrip Active Member

    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    242
    It would be funny to see him actually play chess, sure his words are not that strong while playing.

Share This Page