The New Doom is Depressing.

The new Doom... Classes.

CLASSES! IN DOOM!

How did this happen? The original arena shooter has introduced leveling and classes with presumably more unlockable weapons not seen. Only two weapons, abilities, and no strafe jumping...

The single player shown off looks so interesting too, which is what makes this more depressing.

I won't say the new Doom wasn't fun.. But it's just been so far simplified. Much of the skill of the original has been lost, no more equal starts, etc. Thank god no regeneration for health or... I don't even know.

I just wish they created it as a new ip rather than just literally USE the name of Doom to get money with a completely differently played game.

It seems even the oldest of shooters can't avoid losing itself to being an arcade shooter... Disappointing.

I know it's open beta was out last weekend and you guys probably gave it a go. What'd you think? Think it was fun too, ruined the Doom ip, well?

I don't see how you get simpler than "x-axis only shoot the sprite" but ok.

I have seen too much kneejerk over "omg classes in Doom" to care about giving my own opinion.

tl;dr: games change over time, but people on the Internet love to simultaneously complain that changes to legacy systems are horrendous but genres also never innovate and try anything new.

I'd rather main series games be samey and have spinoff titles released to try new things. Like with Mario. Call me selfish, but I want both.

And Doom didn't have strafe jumping till 3. Just strafe and wall running.

Sure they do, but there are some changes that kind of break the style of the game, surely? Imagine if a team based objective shooter such as Team Fortress lost classes? Or making it si everyone has the same weapon Counter-Strike? Do you think the response would not he reasonable? Doom is about map control and while some elements are retained (as thankfully power weapons remain) the introduction of classes reduces said map control by a huge margin. Since Doom isn't an objective based shooter where you get map control from the objective.

Haha I mean in the whole series, not necessarily the original.

Wasn't mentioned originally but I mean in the whole series of Doom, strafe jumping being a positive change!

See @Gorbles I don't necessarily dislike change, I just think there are some that fit better and some that don't. Change can be a good thing... But it can also ruin a series. Consider the death of Medal of Honor.

@arseface A good thing I didn't mention: Strafe jumping was seen in one of the files as an on/off condition. So there's a chance we may see classic servers possibly?

Btw let me just say now on my bias. I really freakin' love movement based shooter. With tons of skill-based movement. So that's a big factor in my distaste for the new Doom. It adding things to make movement easy- Double jump, clambering/vaulting, etc..

I don't personally like strafe jumping. My issue with it is the same as my issue with L-cancelling in Smash. It's an input tax, not a choice. I'd rather momentum retention be automated in some way because the input style doesn't add anything but tedium.

Double jumps and climbing/vaulting can absolutely be done in a way to enhance the movement game. The only real issues with them are that they've been traditionally used in slower games. Forcing the choice between a maneuver that slows you down but gets you to a better position is something I'd enjoy. I haven't seen it done to that degree yet, but the potential is absolutely there.

Yes, I am an FPS heathen.

Halo is arguably more of an arena shooter.

Can be solved with auto hop.

To be honest, I'm not that shocked about the new Doom. I find it more depressing that so few people play the older arena shooters or the new ones that are more faithful to the original concept...but that's to be expected really, they have very little exposure and are kinda tough to get into :/ I really like them though.

I had some decent fun playing the beta. I like how it's like Halo though because Halo is so much fun... and I kinda wish it had vehicles.

Halo Reach was so much fun

I dislike this comparison, though that's because im a Halo buff I guess. :<

If I had a better computer/desk I'd be playing UT4 so much.

I played the O'Beta......
Ahhh good ol strafe jumping,,
It feels a bit more like unreal tourney than doom but it's sorta acceptable.
The gameplay feels solid and i didn't find any game breaking or annoying bugs so far..
(It's only a demo of the full game but i have to admit it's nicely polished)

The thing i don't understand is why 50% of people complain that there will be progression and unlockables and 50% complain that if it didn't have these features there would be no reason to want to go back and keep playing.
I'm sure ID thought about this and given the massive success of CoD and it's progression based unlocks they went with that kind of MP motive.

Personally I'm more into Reflex and Quake Live. Though I'm more addicted to Tf2 and CS which are a bit separate from the traditional Arena Shooter but- are certainly more so than modern arcadey shooters.

I didn't really like the movement in UT when I first gave it a try. Might give it another go though!

Edit: God I love the movement system of the source engine when it's unhampered, strafing in Source is wonderful. Bhopping <3 In CSGO it's been limited pretty hard, but you can still get pretty good hops. In tf2 there's a bit of a speed cap on it afaik, but it feels so smooth- and definitely does give you a bit more speed. Which I enjoy.

It's because progression systems go hard core against the ideals of arena shooter. It's the same reason people hated it when they added it to Halo a few years back.

I also hate this argument against not having progression systems, when did it get to where games needed to give you rewards for you to continue playing? Especially in the form of stuff that impacts gameplay...? Now cosmetics and a useless rank being given for playing? A-0kay with me... But weapons, perks, whatever.. Stupid imo.

Also I forgot to mention... DEATH STREAKS? Are you kidding me? Awarding players for dying. Wonderful.

I haven't had enough time with the UT4 to have a firm opinion on core movement. UT2004 movement I loved. I suspect I'll miss double jumps and air dodges, but hopefully wall slides and the stinger will make up for it.

If only my setup was up to the task...

It's definitely an interesting thing you expose, because most of the critics have focused on map awareness and placement of objectives on the map too. It's a fascinating topic and I'm not sure how "wrong" anyone can be. Like, I think most people can be "right" more than most people can be "wrong", if you get me. More than one optimal solution to the same problem.

My personal response would be that in this context, classes are not so much of a big deal in Doom, than they are in TF2. Classes matter to pretty much everything in TF2. In Doom, after winning a single match, you pretty much get a custom loadout.

(for the record: I've been playing since the closed alpha. I'm not saying I'm good, but I understand the game here. Not that loadouts were in alpha, heh)

In the same article (I forget which site, perhaps Rock Paper Shotgun? I like that one, it's one of the few I still read) I read that not only is map context / awareness reduced due to loadouts impacting weapon choice, but that the monster rune made people rush for that pickup in a way that emphasised map context / awareness. The writer then spent a paragraph subjectively outlining why the demon didn't "feel" powerful enough to him. This is absolutely fair, but in-context seems like a literary trick to downplay the map relevant of the monster / demon / hell rune, whatever its called.

Does the introduction of map control reduce some map awareness to some degree? Absolutely. But you can't take the pros without the cons.

Much like in Unreal Tournament, a game I've literally sank years into (Unreal, Unreal 2, UT99, the rare version that is UT2003, UT Championship 2, UT2004, UT3 and recently the UT4 alpha - again, not pedigree. I'm by no means good. But I know what the game entails, and I know why I'm beaten when I'm beaten, haha. Even by bots, embarrassingly!), Doom suffers historically from weapon placement on spawn. If I spawn near a Flak Cannon in Unreal, it's usually hilariously easy to maintain control from that point on most non-point capture modes. The same goes for Doom with its primary Team Deathmatch. I found where the armour spawns were, where the additional health vials (as supposed to healing packs which don't extend your maximum) are and I camped around that spot making good use of terrain. My match records are Not Bad, not bad at all really.

But Doom in its latest incarnation removes that additional "oh I've spawned next to my favourite weapon that I happen to be the best with". This to me is worth the sacrifice of that part of map awareness - which still exists in the game because secret powerups and the Hell teleporters give a great advantage to those who find them (more than the hell rune, sometimes). But it's subjective, sure. Some people may prefer the classic design.

I honestly believe the new design is actually an improvement. But that's games design for you. Some games become popular because subjective mechanics are widely-praised as good. Some games fail because subjective mechanics are widely-panned. It's not always "this is definitely a bad design". It can be, sure. But in this case I think that at least in part, people simply aren't choosing to adapt. They're choosing to look back at what Doom was, in a time when the FPS genre was widely unevolved compared to modern offerings. And this isn't neccessarily a bad thing - but it's important to recognise when that bias is coming into play, so you can play up your target demographics. The developers are taking a risk here, and it'll be interesting to see where that goes.

WOW, just checked the PS Store and noticed something that will fill you all with joy
Micro-Transactions,,
Yes not only have they added one use perks to give you an advantage in a round, you can also spend money to buy them instead of earning them... i'm guessing same goes for the customized armor and or skins.
Why do i say this, Because "In Game Purchases are Optional" is stated in the games description on the PS4's Store.

Also afaik there is already a season pass.