Let's Talk about Mods in Competitive Games

The fact that PA has always been moddable doesn't make it fair to do so at all.

I think your involvement in the mods blind you colin. We are not attacking your mods. We are not fighting against your work. You all don't get it, I haven't seen anyone who argues that the mods shouldn't be here. I love the mods, and I think they are vital in PAs development but as we have said 10 times now, this is not about that. It is about the fact that when players play competitive they should fight on equal terms. In the same game. With the same opportunities. I would love to see your mods in the game Colin but it isn't a part of it right now and that is what we need to take into account. If Uber implement them into the base game, I garantuee you there will be no one complaining. But until then it gives an advantage to them who use it, and that has no place in competitive games. The fact that you think it should be a part of the base game (it probably should) doesn't change the fact that you get the advantage.

I am getting feed up now. The same guys (you know who you are) drags the subject into the rainforrest again and again. You argue about stuff this is really not about. Stop posting the same off topic posts all the time. Stop putting words in our mouth. Read what we write and wants to communicate. This is not about how the game should be, it is about how it is. What you do in your casual games, that I don't give a sh*t about. But when it is serious (money and pride on the line) I really miss some good old fair play and some good morals.

You should know by now that I am all about fair play. I don't see using ui tweaks goes against that though, and forcibly preventing competitive players using them would be detrimental to mods in general.

Sever mods generally can't be used in competitive matches, and as such they don't get used that much at all.

I agree there are some potential bad mods, and if / when these actually pose a problem maybe we need to look at something. Currently however the majority of these mods simply represent info already available to the player in a different way. That isn't unfair or unreasonable.

Frankly if you cannot accept that concept then you shouldn't be playing a game where mods are a core part of the experience.

This is your opinion on the matter. It doesn't meen it is the right one. You have posted your opinions quite a lot now, we get were you stand cdrkf. You really don't have to repeat them every time someone says anything against.

What I have gathered from this thread:
To participate in a tournament you need to install a mod on PAMM, therefore you should know about the mods that are available to be installed. Because of this it is an equal playing ground and all players have the same opportunities and choices on what mods to use (The list of available mods being PAMM).
If you are also talking about ladder games then atm it is kind of unfair because a lot of people don't know about mods and PAMM.

I have to say I stand against ANY mod's in competitive play. To play any game fairly Both sides should have the same tools at there disposal a mod may not allow a worse player to beet a better player but when both players are equal the slightest advantage may throw the match in one player's favour.

If mod's cant be removed then all mods should be declared and the option given to decline the match without penalty.

The only other solution I can see if mods are incorporated directly into the client so players can easily match the mods of there opponent before the match starts.

I guess my English sense of fair play is partly to blame hear but I do think there needs to be a standard of some sort.

This would be a good solution in my opinion.

I suppose it sort of works like this already. (As far as I know) All mods on PAMM are allowed, so your opponent is basically allowed to use any mod on the list, which means there is no need to declare what mods are in use. I don't think the declining a match idea would work well because A) all mods are allowed so by entering the tournament you can expect to come up against people who use these mods B) this would be difficult to implement.

Once again any mod on PAMM is available. Everyone can basically find and use the mods that help them and not use the mods that don't.

How many mods are on pamm? can I download a mod in a competative game when I see my opponent is using a new mod that I don't have?

I disagree If the game is to be fair in a competitive setting then there needs to be a set standard of mods, that are listed in the client, Not everyone uses pamm and new player's may not be aware it even exist's.

The game is hard enough on new player's as it is (there are some very good player's out there).

Tournament's are different, but ranked matches need this if they are to be considered fair to all. I doubt I will change my stance on this.

Consider this my vote on the subject. ; )

I've seen this "new player" argument used a whole damn lot recently. It's incorrect.

I have a total of maybe 6 ranked matches. If you're remotely interested in doing ranked, you've probably looked at improving your play, so you more than likely know about PAMM, PAchat and all that jazz. Least this has been my experience, as a new player.

I disagree I've played quite a few ranked matches also and did have a gold rank at one point but it was some month's before I even new pamm was a thing and no one has ever mentioned pamm in any pa chat I've been on.

Any way I've said my bit on the subject and these are my opinions.

It's not incorrect it's my opinion

..but you need PAMM for in game PAchat. Unless you exclusively use the Chrome version I suppose.

Dunno, guess I just do a lot of background research. I was gold also, but I lost a match due to crappy path finding where all my booms decided, no, lets not go up this ramp, lets stand here in front of these turrets, which brought me down to sucky silver.


The rage was real.

Your opinion is no more valid than mine. I will *always* repost my opinion when you put a post basically saying "your all wrong, now don't respond".

I accept people disagree with me, fine, but don't tell me I'm not allowed to respond.

I love how all these people loving fair play come out now to attack mod, when everyone agreed that 'smurfing' and taking up multiple spots on the ladder and such is totally fair apparently.

I was told quite categorically back then that expecting any kind of 'gentlemans agreement' back then was totally impossible and I was silly to think that. Funny how peoples entire perception changes when it suits them eh?

Ooops totally got that wrong. I do apologuise

I just press enter and type my message..

Ah I'm talking about the mod, PAchat, which gives you global chat. It's real nice.

that's like the exact exclamation I make to myself when I reach the end of the content of your brain. what a coincidence!

If you edit the text file (an easy task) you can make it say what you want and thus it won't have changed anything.

no.

that is not it.

You actually have to think a little harder than that.

How do you propose to do that ?

Mayby a list next to the player name?

Utterly False

As a new player, where will you find information about pamm? The thread is buried pages deep in the PA Classic forum. People can't even figure out you can do area commands and you expect them to know not only what to search for but where?

How will you even know it exists?

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And this arguement going around that to be good at the ingame 1v1 ranked ladder you also need to be good at modding and researching modding is patently ridiculous. Yea, if i play cs:go and i want to be good at it, this means i have a responsibility to go and find some wallhacks and aimbot right. give me a break.