Differenciated Radar Blips and The General Approach to Intel

Another two months, and still no feedback?

I'm starting to wonder whether @mkrater is possibly the only developer left on the PA project.

It's actually a simple question, all we want to know is whether the intel system in PA is scheduled for being improved so that it is at least on par with SupCom, comfort wise, or not. After all, it still feels like a stub with far too many rough edges and uncovered border cases.

Just hope
In general, as i mentioned in my recent feedback, the whole Intel stuff in PA needs some love...not just the blips, everything. Supreme Commander did such a nice job there with Jammer, Stealth, Cloak, different Radar kinds etc...while PA does nothing at all.
The Deep Space radar is the worst of them...

@mkrater @jables @sorian @bgolus

We don't post on every single question, as we have a schedule on how things are going to be handled in the game based on priorities and available resources. Ones such as this where you are asking for a redo on a system, it will be rare to get a response unless we are already planning to do it as we have a very large to do list on things we already have planned.

We are working on radar improvements overall. We are not using FA or Supcom as the basis however. The PA radar is going to stay similar to its current design.

what with full-blown vision?

i wonder what that means...

Good question, what it could mean:

• Radar and vision are finally going to leave "ghosts" behind when you loose direct vision / radar coverage, and radar blips remain fully fleshed icons as long as it remains tracked, but no active stealth / omni radar / radar jammers as it was in SupCom. While at it, the good old "radar blips are actually full units" exploit is going to be fixed.
  
• Virtually nothing changes, only technical refinements to increase the performance.
• Virtually nothing changes, only range of various radar installations is going to be tweaked.
  
• Only TA style active stealth is being added, but everything remains as broken as it is.

I seriously hope for option 1, as option 2 and 3 would be a serious disappointments. Option 4 would be nice to have for some mods, but it's even more futile without having 1.

Well, after all it's still an acknowledgment that radar/vision DOES require some more work. Which is a nice thing after 2 years.
(Measured from start of this thread. The topic has been around for about 3 1/2 to 4 years now.)
((And as we know, Sorian already went out of his way, and implemented some of the missing techniques inside the AI since that thing would otherwise be entirely incapable of scouting.))

TA style stealth is possible now AFAIK, right?

You can make a unit either invisible to radar or vision.

No, TA style stealth was toggleable and had an energy cost assigned. At least the cloak command had.

As it stands, PA only supports unconditional invisibility/radar protection.

No, no it doesn't.

Statera Gil-Es were one of the few units to use this. They were invisible to radar with an energy cost that could be toggled off, rendering them visible to radar.

does that still work or not?

Rejoice, the topic has served it's purpose:

Ain't that yet to determine?

No, no it doesn't.

Anyone know how I could give a unit radar invisibility in terms of modding?

I looked here: https://forums.uberent.com/threads/reference-unit-blueprints.47378/

Searched, Googled, etc.

I believe recon.observable.ignore_radar would do it. Take a look at the nuclear_sub for an example.

Derp. Shows how little I know about navy. I was looking at the attack sub thinking it was the only sub /facepalm

But still I'm looking at nuclear_sub.json and I don't see radar mentioned or anything stealthy looking under recon. What am I missing?

nuclear_sub.json contents for reference:

Spoiler: wall of code

Code:

{
    "base_spec": "/pa/units/sea/base_ship/base_ship.json",
    "display_name": "!LOC(units:barracuda.message):Barracuda",
    "description": "!LOC(units:sub_class_anti_sub_and_anti_ship_torpedoes_long_range_ballistic_nuclear_missile.message):Sub Class: Anti-sub and anti-ship torpedoes, long range ballistic nuclear missile",
    "max_health": 700,
    "build_metal_cost": 4320,
    "spawn_layers": "WL_WaterSurface",
    "mesh_bounds": [5,
    35,
    5],
    "unit_types": ["UNITTYPE_Naval",
    "UNITTYPE_Mobile",
    "UNITTYPE_Offense",
    "UNITTYPE_Advanced",
    "UNITTYPE_Sub"],
    "navigation": {
        "type": "deepwater",
        "acceleration": 50,
        "brake": 50,
        "move_speed": 10,
        "turn_speed": 30,
        "dodge_radius": 15,
        "dodge_multiplier": 1.0,
        "wobble_factor": 0.0,
        "wobble_speed": 0.0
    },
    "physics": {
        "radius": 6,
        "push_class": 2
    },
    "recon": {
        "observer": {
            "items": [{
                "layer": "surface_and_air",
                "channel": "sight",
                "shape": "capsule",
                "radius": 200
            }]
        }
    },
    "model": {
        "filename": "/pa/units/sea/nuclear_sub/nuclear_sub.papa",
        "arrows": 5
    },
    "tools": [{
        "spec_id": "/pa/units/sea/nuclear_sub/nuclear_sub_tool_weapon.json",
        "aim_bone": "bone_root",
        "muzzle_bone": "bone_root"
    }],
    "events": {
        "build_complete": {
            "audio_cue": "/SE/Build_Complete/sea"
        },
        "fired": {
            "audio_cue": "/SE/Weapons/sea/nuclear_sub_fire"
        },
        "died": {
            "audio_cue": "/SE/Death/Sea_sub"
        }
    },
    "audio": {
        "loops": {
            "move": {
                "cue": "/SE/Movement/sea/nuclear_sub_loop",
                "flag": "vel_changed",
                "should_start_func": "is_moving",
                "should_stop_func": "is_not_moving"
            }
        }
    },
    "TEMP_texelinfo": 16.0481
}

That has display name Barracuda; the current nuclear_sub is the Kraken. Perhaps you have an old copy of the files?

I did a steam file verification yesterday and I grabbed it from the PTE folder: \Steam\SteamApps\common\Planetary Annihilation\PTE\media\pa\units\sea\nuclear_sub

Is there a better way to verify my files?

That is bizare. Anywhere here is the relevant bit

Code:

  "recon": {
    "observable": {
      "ignore_radar": true, 
      "layer": "underwater"
    }, 
    "observer": {
      "items": [
        {
          "channel": "sight", 
          "layer": "surface_and_air", 
          "radius": 200, 
          "shape": "capsule"
        }, 
        {
          "channel": "sight", 
          "layer": "underwater", 
          "radius": 200, 
          "shape": "capsule"
        }
      ]
    }
  },