Different unit designs

If by SC he means Starcraft, it's completely true and not at all picky - one marine from one player may be tougher or do more damage than another marine from a different player because of weapon or armour upgrades, despite looking identical. UI is ok for describing what a unit can do if it's not obvious from the unit design and never changes (for example, that a unit is amphibious); but it's not ok for describing differences between identical looking units, especially if such differences can change over the course of the game - such differences should be immediately visible, or else you have to constantly re-check units by hovering over them. SC2 improved on this IIRC, but I haven't played it much. You are quite right though that Starcraft is not alone in this.

If he means Sup Com, the only instance of it is some of the commander upgrades. Given the importance (and singular nature) of the unit, it's a fairly acceptable exception.

Commander upgrades in SupCom had a visible effect on the commander.

Some were identical (I think the model just had unupgraded/upgraded versions for each arm and back, that the upgrades shared), and I don't think the upgrades that had multiple levels had different visible models for each level. Could be wrong, I never dabbled in modding the abilities, so I didn't look too closely.

From my memory I was able to tell what upgrade a person had, in some cases even while they were still constructing. So maybe some upgrades had no extra model extension, but the ones that were important in 1v1 had.

woops.

here's the upgrades.

I just had an idea and this looks like the thread to mention it in. I know this sounds like texture packs but it's a little different in my mind. I'd love to see each faction with a unique look, even if the units are technically identical. When I think of texture packs I think of Minecraft, choose your own. This would be different looks and names for the same units, as decided by Uber. You don't pick what you want. There needs to be consistency. Also, faction specific effects like lasers and explosions. My $.02.

recoloring of the effects at best at least short term
otherwise it is the same issue with adding factionmodels ... not sure i like factionspecific explosions ... making the factions looking unique takes time ..

I was thinking color specific faction effects. The explosion is exactly the same but has an orange tint. This faction shoots red lasers, that one shoots blue. That's all I was thinking.

yea alpha made a colored explosionmod
there is also awesome projectiles ... problem is i don't like neither of those ...

but there is a fair ammount of other visual mods i realy dig

reminds me a little of Airmech.
If i remember correctly, there are also a few units with alternate skins, and there i could not see any gameplay related problems.

Overall, i would like such things. Also as i mentioned in my own topic for Animations.
Let it be through clientside "texturepacks" first, and later on through multiplayer compatible packs so that other players can also see that you like (like your commander)

So yeah, i would love to have that - can i turn my slammer into a brick then?

slammer and brick animate entirely differently as the later is quadrupedal
and has no armcannons

That would be a matter of how much you could change the units.
Just change them a little bit like swapping the legs with tracks, or a full modelchange?
quote from the first post

so, based on that, it would not just be a "texture change", animation would not matter if it changes with the model, right?
At some point it wouldnt even matter, the symbol stays the same, the stats are the same, the name is the same...just the model would change. and be honest, how often do you zoom in that close where you can see every single model?
If you dont know the units at all and need to look at the models - then you have a problem, but as soon as you know how to distinguish the units based on symbol, name or even thing like range and speed, you wouldnt have a problem anymore

Actually with changes in models come changes in units, for example the projectiles may come from a different area (as the weapons are place somewhere else.) With this comes changes in sim.

Would that make any gameplay related difference then?
Like one model would be stronger because the cannon is mounted on top instead of the side?

How does it work for the different commander models then? do they all have the gun on the same coordinates?
As far as i know the commanders were slighty different a while ago (eg Tank Commanders could turn on spot, while the others couldnt)

Or do you mean that the sim would be different between the players, if it would be clientside?
If such a model change would be a serverside thing, wouldnt the sim be the same for everyone?

If your gun was high enough, then you could shoot over the wall

so yeah, that would be a gameplay issue. so things like that would need a workaround to function without advantages

They are immediately visible.

You select your unit and look at the ui which tells you the upgrade levels with unique icons. Or you select your opponents units and do the same.

This has never been a complaint by starcraft players (of which there are many). It is accessible and easy to understand.

Having to select a unit takes time.

Besides yes of course it's not a complaint of Starcraft users as it's just a part of the mechanics, but it was a complaint of TA users clearly.

TA never had upgrade system though did it? I can't really remember.

I know it had some automatic targeting facility thing. But that was implemented differently than to how an upgrade system would be.

*as for time. Everything takes time so I think it's more important to ask how much. In this case, not really very much. Maybe 1 second every few minutes. Most times not even at all, since it should be intuitive simply based on the number of units that the player has and at what timing. More units more early will generally be less upgraded.

Also, you're only looking at huge differences in battles with large upgrade differences, which slowly ramp up in granularity.

With good implementation, there really arn't many moments where the player is left confused and frustrated as is often argued.

TA explicitly *avoided* any kind of upgrade system for the very reason that it would be almost impossible to identify what unit would perform like what.

The upgrade mechanic is something I *hate* in RTS games. I really don't get the concept that every battle you have to *relearn your bloody technology again*. Having to build a particular facility to make something at least makes some sense. In real life a manufacturer isn't going to lose all their designs when setting up a new production facility, they may however need to bring in specific equipment before they can produce a particular item.

Blizzard RTS games have always focused on upgrades as do many others- I just don't really like it for multi-player (I have less issues with it as part of a campaign, e.g. with Empire Earth where you start out with cave dwellers and slowly develop through the ages, and all upgrades and researched technologies are persistent).