What the last King of the Planent teaches us about T2 balance

Considering this game and the players' (@elodea @rivii ) impressions after it was over, we can see that having T2 as a viable option that, if not scouted in time, provides a clear advantage in terms of unit capabilities and power, is fun to play and fun to watch. We saw T2 naval in both water planets in the last instalment of KotP and I think we all agree this is because the naval balance chages of recent patches had a very positive impact in the naval game.

Without getting into details about balance changes for the other T2 factories, I think it is worth pointing out that the philosophy that inspired the T2 naval changes and the end results as they stand (a nice timing window for going T2, plenty of counter units, diversity of army compositions) are both good guidelines for balancing the rest.

I'd say the reason why navy t2 works is because with navy the maps seem larger because navy is slower.
So either increase map size or slow down unit speeds.

definitively NOT the later

It actually can be made to look exactly the same...

Or, y'know, keep the planets the same size and make all the units smaller (and thus effectively move slower.)

I'm all in favor of bigger planets, though even with that the 1v1 format lends itself to smaller, faster matches where T2 timing is an "if", not a "when",

actually naval isn't that much slower than land. Although it's maybe a part of the reason, it's more about the relative cost of units! 450/600 vs 150/220.

*Timings timings timings!

If you ask me naval T2 is to strong, and reintroduces T2 rushing (As seen in the first battle)
Reminds me of the days we complained about T1 being absolete ...

And the cool thing about TA and SupCom was that it was not a Rock/Paper/Scissors game.

T1 being too strong invalidates T2 for the most of the maps, see what i did there?

Actually match one doesn't support this at all.. Battlebear rushed T2 and lost because of it.

Erm, Clopse wasn't in KOTP 11.

Elodea got early t2, but it wasn't what won him the match. Battlebear surrendered map control by letting narwhals shred his airforce (unfavourable fighter:bomber ratio despite elodea having no air) and pick off all of his expansions. Elodea's t2 naval simply helped clear the path for the final push on battlebear's base, though I suspect a t1 force of similar cost would have also been able to do so.

It's good that T2 is a more viable option again. It's certainly more satisfying to use the meaty t2 units and the interplay with orbital brings a welcome new dimension.

My bad, battlebear I meant. Battlebear went for an early T2 naval factory but was overwhelmed because Elodea had 3x the map control and much more T1.

In the match shown in the OP? Elodea had a T2 fabber out before Battlebear even started his factory. I'd have said Battlebear had the early map control but couldn't protect his mex against the narwhals that elodea sent out in ones and twos (see the larger island and the group of 6 mex on the other side of the planet which were just flattened unopposed).

I guess another factor is how well torpedo launchers with walls work to block an attack from a t1 navy players. Especially once you reach t2 navy and use t2 torpedo launchers.

Eeeeh, there were quite a few rock paper scissors units/defences.

You haven't watched the match, go watch it. Elodea gets a much earlier T2 than battlebear, although I agree that the same metal cost in T1 naval would probably have gained him the win as well.

The other reason I feel T2 navy is a much more viable rush than the land/air factories is related to what elodea said about the higher cost: T2 naval allows free kills against T1 (just like sniper bots/bluehawks/shellers can allow free kills against T1 ground) but those free kills are far more valuable. If you lose 3 orcas trying to rush a leviathan that's a pretty massive loss, equivalent to almost 10 tanks. And you're actually likely to lose more than that with the leviathans massive range and the likelihood it has other ships with it.

Talking about T2 reminds me, is the Leveler still terrible?

I remember a while ago it had a turn rate that was much faster than it's turret turn rate, so every time it changed direction it threw it's shot off, meaning it fired way less often than it should

They fix that?