some units to eventualy spice up gameplay ...

hoping to not sound like a broken record
as certain unittypes have been discussed to death before
i still like to bring some examples of units that realy may have an impact in PA overall gameplay but i am not going to repeat the stuff that has been talked about like hovercrafts and multiunittransports

but lets talk about the actual implementation of these:

t2 interplanetary aircraft
this idea has been around for awhile and considering how current multiplanetmeta developes
i feel that it makes more and more sense to include such a unit with me (and likely others) overthinking many times of how it should work and people having raised their request to have the t2 plane back again ...

how it could work this time:

so like last time i talked about it it should be able to traverse orbital but not engage in that layer
differently this time around i like it to see being able to attack both air AND ground as i like to see it having a more offensive role differently than it´s t1 part however it should not launch missiles but neither shall it use guns like the kestrel ... so i thought it should have a beamweapon like the avanger able to miss but when it hits doing considerable damage ... this would give it a more general role not neccesarily outperforming units like the t1plane, bomber or kestrel so these stay viable throughout a match for the defender ...
also fairly intresting unlike other aircraft this aircraft may have a special use in actualy traveling through the orbital layer as while it would be vulnerable to anti orbital it would be invulnerable to antiair before entering the airlayer again to attack ...

edit: a t2 interplanetary airfighter has been included




t2 nukeboombot ...
this hasn´t been mentioned too often but it actualy is an intresting option when done right and actualy was in a few mods
the idea to have a very slow moving unarmed bot with high hp, very high damage and high aoe the size of a nuke but just 2/3 of it´s damage needing 3 to 4 nukebots to kill a commander still being fairly expensive maybe also around 2/3 of the nukeprice ... but unlike the nuke it would be less binary it would be even more risky as it could blow up anywere even in the own base or in the middle of an army ... however it could make use of the teleporter and the transports but only doing damage on ground as it might be to powerfull against gasgiant harrasment




update:
not gonna open an extrathread so just keaping this one
so what about these?

t1 gunship:
something i liked about the cybran nation in supcom were they as the only faction had an early gunship that was primarily used for base defence or ecoraiding against mexxes and fabbers
at the moment we don´t see gunships used without getting into t2 and even then they are a rare sight ... this one would not be used in a assault against bases however as the bumblebee already serves that role but be more a earlysnipe unit that is also fairly easyly countered with any sort of aa even against groups of doxes



changing the t2 gunship kestrel more into a "antizerg" gunship
as said in the t1 gunshipdescription the kestrel currently is rarely used even when people go into t2 ... so i imagine it could be made more attractive when instead of guns it would have small aoe, low-ish damage missiles ...



t2 amphibius ship:
a popular request but with the current available navalunits a bit difficult to implement i imagine ...
so i have 2 thoughts about this one to either include an entirely new ship in that case a cruiser that serves a purely antiunitrole against ships tanks and bots bringing in medium range high rate of fire beamturrets or to have the stingray missileship be capable of going on land ... either of them would allow to bring naval power to landbased warfare ...




what are your thoughts?
do you agree on having those units like mentioned here?
or do you want a different implentation?

for the aircraft, perhaps not interplanetary, but at least as an orbital defence option, IE it can go into the orbital layer.

Definetly like the nukebot.

you have 3 defenceoptions already
for orbital the avanger and the anchor and on air the hummingbird ...
imo interplanetary is a must for it if you want a easy option otherwise it would be dependant on carriers like every other aircraft ... not to forget you have now tatical missiles to deal with too ...

I think I am well aware of the tactical missiles, sir. Considering I was the first to implement them that way. Also, I'm not saying it's wrong to have them interplanetary, I just would like the as sub-orbital fighters, purely personal preference.

just sayan, sir ... ... also showoff

im not so sure about the inter planetary part as mid to late game all your going to see is hundreds of (insert team colour) symbols moving from planet to planet and its going to be impossible to see whats going where especially when avengers ect start getting thrown about the place and its just going to look a mess imo

that is a problem with orbital ui though .. not with the unit itself neccesarily .. cause you could say the same bout avengers or unitcannonlaunches aswell ..

I could be wrong, but didn't the RCBM implement them first?

Either way though if you have planes that can go interplanetary and attack ground and air. All your gonna get is games where some ones makes it to a planet or spawns on a planet is left unmolested builds a few T2 air factories? and spamms out enough that he can just conga line a thousand of them to the planets and wipe out every one instantly.
Might as well let stargates allow air travel so people can just spam bomber swarms through them..,.. same result

Interplanetary aircraft would completely break the orbital game. No.

I was thinking the same thing.

Completely agree, I still dont understand why it's such a popular idea. =S

how if it doesn´t actualy interact with it but just travels through it?
it can be easily stopped with antiorbital and antiairweapons when in the respective layer
it doesn´t engage against orbital units itself (yes arbitrary ... but ballance) ...
and you still need to go t2 air first ...

why is it a popular idea? considering how strong people cover their planets in defenses after conquering them this would be one unit to still being able to do some harrasment .. it wouldn´t be however a major pushoption considering how many defenses it would have against it .. it is not a good defensive option itself ... fighters and other aa would be able to deal with it easily ...
it shall help to pave the way for your main army in taking out defenses that stop you from using your main invasionoptions ... on single planets it would be cost ineffective and entirely useless on gasgiants were it at best would serve as a meatshield/fodder ...
as for the concern of clumping up with sxx umbrellas prioritising them should be a fairly easy solution when they don´t already...

I don't recall that :/

I thought catapults hit orbital at some point in beta/gamma. (But maybe that was aircraft. ??)
And if they didn't, it's not like everyone and their mother didn't suggest it at least once...

It would completely break the invasion side of the orbital game, no matter how you look at it.

June 19th
https://github.com/cwarner7264/realm-rebalance/commit/61d09016c3ca424a44f3c83c0e54b05d011492a9

interplanetary airplanes that can transition between orbital and air layer have been needed badly in PA for a while now.

There is zero counter to bomber spam to make a planet impregnable, umbrellas counter unit cannons, anti nukes counter nukes and teleporters are becoming more expensive.

You can always make the arguement that invading earlier or acting quicker is the counter because it prevents the planet fortress situation, but just for quality of gameplay you need a consistent way for allowing people with metal advantage to do this throughout any stage of the game.

I've basically lost only twice on styx with a 2 minute orbital rush. The first was because the other guy did an orbital rush too, and the 2nd was because i went afk while building 70 nukes and the guy reclaimed the pelican my commander was in.

It's getting a bit silly how powerful it is to turtle a planet, and how much more powerful it will become with more expensive teleporters that will increase the advantage given to the player who is first to a planet.

Either interplanetary airplanes or orbital aircraft carriers - interplanetary airplanes would seem a bit hard to balance, they'd have to be buildable by air & orbital factories, and they'd have to not make avengers obsolete. Carriers have their own problems - namely, how to prevent bomber snipes with them, they'd be ridiculously easy.

I'm down for both ideas.

I wonder if we could get rid of the avenger that's "not a spaceship" with the implementation of a t2 orbital capable fighter? Or maybe I'm just being silly.