Build 77337-pte now up

I suggest giving the Grenadier a different projectile effect, maybe something like the one from the Awesome Projectiles mod.

I have another idea how to change this. We could make them slower a little, but give them a bigger range boost. Up from 105 to 120.Grenadier should outrange tanks without micro.

So this units could be useful for killing enemy tanks behind their walls. Cuz "walls spam" really annoying sometimes. We should have t1 units which can ignore it.

Oh true, however that change was brought in due to the high cost of energy... Combat fabbers could arguably use energy again. To me a combat fabber should be like a normal fabber with higher health and range but limited build blue prints to make it good on the font line for repair, assist and reclaim duties whilst under fire....

anti-popcorn doubles the range of combat fabbers and makes them relatively more fragile than other units. This makes them a very important unit both to have and to destroy. While I think this change would be a bit excessive for vanilla, I think a little more than a "slight" increase would be ideal.

It is also more painstaking to find, can be amassed beyond it's necessity making destroying some non-effectual, and can be hoarded into a single area making attacking it difficult because armies must somehow get to it and nukes must beat antinukes to get to it and sxx must be tactical weapons to get to it.

Really, this makes it "viable" for the exact opposite reasons that metal is. Metal is a lot more effectual since metal is an absolute cap and the fueling force for any player in any match, and is clearly marked on the map to harass generically, and spread out so it can't be camped on. Power can be clustered and can be overproduced, but if an enemy can trick his way into a power field he can burn down critical amounts of power gens in half the time of mexes.

I think combat fabs are USEFUL now that their price dropped. You can literally get a massive effect by having 1 per 5 tanks, especially if some goofy damage distribution happens and each tank repairs from like 6 or 7 shots.

However, a slight range increase, like 80 range, might be neat. So might a mild energy cost. So might health.

Actually, there is one MASSIVE problem with health really. Medic-deathballs a la Planetside2. You DONT want your combat fabbers to have so much health, that they can heal themselves against let's say dox, and then reclaim the dox. Generally, they probably "learn their place" as healers and not immortals, by being terminated with pretty much any projectile, like a tank shell or a grenade.

Eh, also, I rather the grenadier not micro outrange tanks at all. Well, technically, not outrange tanks at all.

I rather them equal or less tank range, and be balanced by a reduced cost and speed. Basically, if they match a tank's range, a cheap cost like now and a decent speed of 12 is alright. If they have 80 range, they could have 15-16 speed and 85-90 metal cost, so they are made to "die" unlike tanks but are cheap high dps mass, and depending on the defense structure they can rush it with enough unit numbers which is why their cost makes them effective despite short range.

oops, doublepost, sorry, was trying to edit to avoid, but I accidentally didn't.

people who want to play 1vs1 should join http://irc.lc/esper/planetaryannihilation and call my name

27 minute game vs @galenmaly on stable where it flipped from me being the orbital reclaimer already in his base to the person being reclaimed, all in one game. This was by far one of the funnest games i've had in a long time.

pastats: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=271040
replay id: 15933338293060645628

I would really like to appeal for orbital reclaim to stay, as it truly is a fun mechanic for early orbital to interact with the land sphere. At the least, it has potential for great cat and mouse stuff. Huge emphasis on information and disinformation like tricky moving commander away from ninja orbital factories, hiding fabbers, air switches, thinking about the next step and not so much the current one. The counters and counter counters are much deeper than just "build fast moving ion cannon, find and kill the slow fat robot".

If you're intent on nerfing it, you should be increasing orbital fabber energy drain.

I am around for most of the day again, looking for people to play PTE 1vs1 with. So if anybody wants to join my game or ping me in irc.

I'd still say giving all the unit projectiles an overhaul, many of the projectiles are not that visible. I'd love to have more scifi effects as coloured lasers and bigger more awesome flying projectiles from grenadiers etc.

What do these changes mean gameplay-wise?

Means you can use the ssx like a regular army unit, attacking buildings and armies. They are targeted by some ground units though.

it needs less energy per shot, the recharge time is the same, but uses less energy, I think.

Impressions from a few 1vs1:
- transports on t1 are fun
- grenadiers still suck. On maps with lots of chokes like forge they should own. But they get owned instead.

the energy changes feels decent. Could be more, but it certainly feels much better than in stable.
I guess what I would like to see now is a few more bigger maps. Radius 800 or so.
Also wrecks from units.

So just spent a good few games testing the new PTE out with @cola_colin....

Main things I can say:
The new energy / fabber balance is good. Makes energy a much less volatile resource +1

Tried out using Grenediers + walls combo against tanks. The grenediers were safe behind the walls but didn't shoot the tanks?! They also can't hit dox at all. Really they're useless unless your attacking undefended structures (and in that case you've already won). I'm not sure what the solution is but currently I can't really find a use for them as is.

The t1 air transport is quite nice for dropping fabbers around, however Colin proved it's pretty easy to counter. Given how quickly dox and fighters can be around the map, I personally wouldn't risk air lifting the commander. I don't see them as a problem so I think that change should stay

The more I play the more I think the commander needs a build power reduction. I find using him to constantly build structures a bit... dull. Maybe that's just me? Ideally you would use him to set up your initial base, and then go off and expand to new areas of the map. As it stands letting up on factory production = gg as keeping your commander building factories all game results in your steamrollering your opponent, even when your opponent is using their metal (as building more stuff with fabbers results in less metal going into units I suppose as they're less efficient?). I guess that's more of a personal preference but one I thought would be worth debating? Either that or maybe make the rate at which you need factories be a bit slower in comparison to your economy (basically you get eco so quickly that if you do anything *other* than constant factory production in first 10 minutes of the games you're guaranteed to loose, which 'feels' wrong to me- I think there should be a better balance between territory and how many factories you can support).

With all that said, what I can say is that these changes do move the game towards more expansion and conflict about those expansions, rather than simply direct attacking. I think that's a very positive change, +1 to @tvinita

Edit: One other, combat fabbers...

I tried using them combined with tanks, vs pure tanks. With equal numbers pure tanks appears better. I think the issue is they use your metal, so having combat fabbers in your army stalls your factories! I would rather combat fabbers were switched to use energy but no metal (and are only able to repair stuff). I've always thought repairing a unit should basically be free (like it was in TA). That would make them more useable. Either way they also die way to easily so I think they need a bit of a HP buff.

Really guys 1600 is too much.You just did "planetary invasion" 4x harder.Even few enemy bombers on planet can destroy all your plans.Teleporter should have 700-1000 metal cost, no more.

Also my suggestion reduce Astraeus metal cost from 600 to 400. 600 metal is too much for "just a transport".

I think the intention behind the teleporter change is that you need to spam unit cannons instead. But those are just so damn more expensive.
Not really sure about that though, that's not the kind of game I usually play.

I would try:
- increase range + vision of grenadier by 15
- increase the grenadier speed to 17, so it can be combined with dox without totally crippling them (but still slowing them down) and can be used to kite tanks as well, so pure tank armies will die horribly vs kiting grenadiers and thus need support dox or bombers.

not sure if turrets could use a little buff with this. Maybe a bit more hp or something.

Also I agree that it would be pretty nice if the commander was a less good builder and a better fighter, so it is used to do your main expansion stuff.

The cheap teleporter costs from before was always a stand in for the orbital gameplay being new.

Yes. Unit cannons is a part of "late game". You don't have chances use it in early game.

Extremely late game. To launch a really big assualt with them you need a ton of them.

Initial thoughts:

• Energy changes seem good, makes it easier to maintain +ve eco
• Attempting to make grenadiers viable is good
• Combat fabs are now useful for reclaiming trees early game. As long as there is a forest to sustain reclaim, 1 combat fab can outproduce 2 mex (pays for itself in 16 seconds), as well as clear the way for buildings. To a limited extent they may be viable later mixed in with tanks. There is still the bug where a tree yields 12 metal to a combat fab but only 2 to a regular fab, yet takes the same 0.2 seconds to reclaim regardless. Less interesting is the adv. combat fab, which yields 24 metal per tree and outproduces 5 mex
• Pelican T1 is good. The OP comm-bomb is no longer a thing, so it's worth revisiting
  
• Teleporter cost increase is way too much imo. It was too much when it cost 1500, I think it should be 800 tops. It's a utility
  
• The unit cannon nerf seems strange, does it really need nerfing? It doesn't seem to nerf cannon rush cheese as it can be assisted. In the case of late late game, you just need to spam more of them, slowing things down slightly