Idea for grenadiers

I have a note 4, it come with a little pen... My note 3 had an actual ddrawing program, sketchbook. This one only has notepad thing.

I think the grenadiers should be tweaked so that there is an additive effect of each splash. So like if you have a blob of them and you keep firing on an area it gradually builds into a very high damage AOE. Maybe each splash could have a small multiplicative effect with surrounding splash? This would make it so that effectively used, grenadiers could devastate stationary blobs and fortifications, but would also be very vulnerable to flanking attacks, and not at all great for raiding assaults like dox.

Wouldn't that just encourage grenadier blobbing? It effectively means that the overall (potential) damage done by the blob increases exponentially with each added grenadier. The only actually effective way around that would be something arbitrary as far as I can figure off the top of my head.

The problem I think is simply that Grenadiers don't have a role. In my experience, you really need to nail down (at least in a general sense) what you need the unit to be able to accomplish before you can effectively figure out to have the unit will do that you know?

Mike

Their Role is obvious: light artillery. No other unit in t1 or t2 falls into this category; Shellers are definitely Heavy Artillery, Bluehawks are TMLs.

They're actually not far wrong except range; they're way too short ranged. Increase range by maybe 50% and they'd be ideal

Those are weapon types, not unit roles.

Think of it this way, pretend you want to build a house, Unit Types are like the different types of contractors you'll need(Framer, Roofer, Electrician, ect ect) and weapon types are like the tools the contractors use, some have some unique tools but they also have a lot of the same tools as other contractors too.

Mike

Yes, it would encourage grenadier blobbing, but the key would be that the damage builds up over time the longer a single group fires at one area, plus they don't have any good direct fire. So you could just rush dox or booms into them and totally obliterate them. Would make them deadly when used right but also very weak vs more mobile units.

You're suggesting a units role and its primary weapon are not intrinsically linked in this game? I'm not sure why you're even using house analogies here

Imagine you wanted to bombard an enemies base from afar; you might want to use missiles but your enemy had missile defences, so you could also use artillery instead.

They're linked in that the weapon is part of the formula of what the unit needs to carry out it's role, and it's a pretty big part, but in the end just saying "Artillery" is far too broad to have any useful meaning.

A weapon is a big part of how a unit does things, but it's still just a part of it. Even then to weapons can be of the same type but still function in a different way that has a huge impact on game play.

Think of the Aeon Blaze and the Aeon Obsidian, yes they're both T2 Tanks with direct firing weapons but even if you ignore the Obsidian's shield and the Blaze's Hover ability the Weapons are still completely different and serve different roles. The Blaze, with it's High Rate of fire, Low Damage shots excels against large groups of light targets because it results in very little wasted damage while the Obsidian is great against tougher or singular targets because while it has Huge Damage output it only shoots once every four seconds.

Sure the Obsidian can kill most(if not all) T1 units in a single shot, but it can only kill one every four seconds. The Blaze on the other hand might take up to 10-15 shots but it's shooting a projectile every .3 seconds! Not I know what you might be thinking, and you're right, if you look at the weapon stats in isolation it does look like the Obsidian is still better, especially against tougher T1 units, but that's where the rest of the unit's stats mechanics come into play See, for every Expensive and Slow(as in slower than T1 units!) Obsidian you get 1.6 of the Faster, Hovering and more Efficient Blazes. Never mind that if you ignore the metal cost and only look at how fast they're build you get 1.8 Blazes for every Obsidian.

There is a lot more depth to the systems that are interacting here than you seem to be giving them credit for and you need to consider how the different elements of the unit interact because when you don't you get reallllly wonky units.

Mike

Artillery is not "far too broad" in this context: it's 1 faction, 1 unit, no equivalents. It's almost self explanatory: indirect heavy damage long range. What else do you need? It fires freaking mortars, which are artillery in their broadest sense.

We're talking context here: it's a thread about one specific unit in a game of limited unit diversity

There isn't any further depth needed to explain what role a unit takes; you only need indepth analysis for HOW the unit accomplishes this role. I'll give you a hint: it's grenade-based, heavy damage, indirect, AoE

Except that my point is that there is MORE to how a unit accomplishes it's role than just it's weapon.

The weapon is only the last step in process.

By your account, a Turret with the Obsidian's weapon has the same "role" as the Obsidian itself does and while there might be overlaps in regards to what units it's effective/efficient against the two units clearly serve different roles no?

Mike

Meh, it just needs cost closer to dox and that itself would improve it's initial dps. It would just be a high dps trade unit then, opposite to a high dps endurance unit like a basic combat tank.

Anyway, if it swarms a t1 turret right now, neglecting it's cost to do so, it is a guranteed kill because the turret can't prevent the shots with a simple wall. One of few things to do that, that isn't air which is countered easy enough seperately.

If it could do "that", for cheaper, then it honestly would be a very good start.

Also, tanks, to differenciate, need cheaper repair units. That combat fabber can easily cost 300-400 rightfully. It is better than another tank, but it isn't worth 3-4 tanks, much less an entire damn factory.

I'd love to see grenadiers as light artillery. I would imagine they would need a range smaller than pelters. I'm not sure whether they would have aoe damage in this role or what their dps should be. They should be fairly weak though maybe taking 10-20 to match the dps of a pelter.

I would like it if they could only fire while stationary. This would prevent them from being used to kite other land units such as tanks but it would allow them to take out stationary defenses and walls. You would add them in an army then place that army to protect them will they take out defense then the army would be able to move in with much more favorable engagements. This would also allow air as an easy counter without spinners. They could also be used as easy defense behind walls.

Perhaps also giving them a low vision but a radar that cost no energy and is slightly larger than their vision I would use them for that alone. Although I'm not sure on this point.

Grenadiers are my building killers in both mod and vanilla.

They seem to be quite good at the job when compared to dox.