Target/Kmart Australia Pull GTA V Off Shelves

@cola_colin - sure, that's a valid argument. There's also no proven correlation between video games and violent activity.

However, this doesn't stop people being concerned about said media, which they're fully allowed to do. People gripe about tabloid papers and how dumb they are. People gripe about political parties for valid reasons, and for completely invalid reasons.

Remember, I haven't actually said whether I think the game itself is acceptable or not. I don't think there's necessarily a problem with the GTA series, though I would appreciate it if the background universe and player characters were slightly more varied than they are (Saint's Row does this fantastically, for example).

I'm arguing against the notion that these adults who signed the petition are somehow not allowed their opinion. Which is ridiculous - we all are. Target listened to them, because Target's main financial audience is that group of people. I don't shop at Target (I'm not even Australian). I doubt many people of a different age group shop at Target, because if they did these older people wouldn't be the primary demographic!

@squishypon3 - I never said you weren't allowed an opinion. However you should probably consider sometimes that your opinion could be founded on information was incorrect. Nobody is right all the time, and equality most definitely doesn't exist.

People really are far too quick to jump to hyperbole when they're finally told that they're actually factually incorrect. It's a bad habit. Accept it when you're wrong. I've been wrong waaaay enough in the past, speaking from experience here

@Gorbles

I know it doesn't exist, I wish it did. We can never have equality with these laws in place, even though we (society, America, etc..) claim to treat everyone equally.

Edit: Heck, isn't that the idea of feminism, equality for women?

Feminism is, broadly-speaking, equality for everyone. As mentioned earlier, it's a very broad movement with a lot of differing views. There are radicals, and there are non-radicals (like any movement).

Sadly, from what I've personally seen on gaming forums, forumites are rather too quick to go "hah feminism sucks because LOOK AT THIS RADICAL DOING SOMETHING CRAZY", when they're also the first to go "how dare you associate me, as a gamer, with that radical gamer doing something crazy" - it's massively contradictory, you see.

Feminism primarily concerns itself with righting the rights of women, because women are massively disadvantaged across a variety of areas - especially in technology (and also politics, but gawd I could rant about politics for hours independent of its issues with women). This would then also cause the overcorrections that penalise men (for example court orders are generally much more likely to side with the mother - or female representative - in a custody case simply because it's perceived that the mother will do better by the children than the father. Ironically, this is also rooted in the sexist assumption that women are best placed in the home and not at work - but it's a sexist assumption that in this event also harms the father and potentially the children).

Well I agree with you, I don't think feminism as a whole is a bad thing, certainly not... I do identify as female after all.

Feminism is a good thing, and I too dislike the stigma that it's filled with radicals.

I begin to disagree with feminism when it turns from wanting equality to wanting a female dominant society.

I personally just feel this was blown out of proportion; that GTA gets a bad rap when I truly don't think it does much wrong, at least in this category.

(here have something vaguely-related but mainly fun: http://ncase.me/polygons/)

The only thing that was blown out of proportion here was a single store chain choosing to not stock a single product. How many people do you know are personally affected by this store not stocking this specific game?

The odds are this will be quite low. Gamers will be acting outraged for the sake of acting outraged (or going "DEM DARNED CRAZY FEMINIST TYPES", to borrow an exaggeration). Bear in mind that this game can be purchased at a wide variety of other stores.

Also bear in mind that this game was also apparently pulled from a store (chain?) in New Zealand - as stated by the petition. People don't appear to be making a fuss over that.

Conversely, all the people that voted on the petition are likely to shop at Target, because why else would you sign a petition if you don't shop at Target? Target also consulted its customer base specifically, thus reducing the impact of bias from non-Target shoppers that just hate GTA for <reasons>.

In a race crime, race is the motive. In a sex crime, there is violence directly related to sexual activity.

Killing a pixel-prostitute after having consensual sex doesn't count as a sex crime.

Why do you need to call it a pixel-prostitute? It's pixel-consensual sex and a pixel sex crime, if you want to go down that route. Unless the inclusion of the word was simple to devalue the importance of the act to make it somehow more acceptable?

You still haven't bothered to respond to any other points made, and that post wasn't addressed at you.

He was saying that it wasn't a set crime as unlike a race crime (which is a crime you commit because of someone's race) a sex crime is rape or the murder of someone during sex, etc..

Since the killing happened after sex you could argue that the two events weren't connected.

Race is the motive in a race crime, sexual activity is directly related to the crime in a sex crime.

Unless you mean a crime against a particular gender? Female in this instance.

This isn't a double act, yo, you don't need to finish each others' sentences when one of you can't figure out a counterargument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_the_law#Definitions

Argue with the law, not me. I realise it's incredibly important that you convince yourselves that you're both right, because you don't want to deal with the consequences of you not being right, but please.

That clearly says of a sexual nature, killing someone with a gun or a car is not killing someone in a sexual manner.

You just helped my argument.

Tbh I can't really tell why that sentence would make driving over somebody with a car be suddenly a sex crime.
Driving over somebody with a car is not an assault of sexual nature. To add parentheses:

Where is the sexual part in driving over a person with a car? Yes there was (non violent) sexual content a few seconds before, but there is no relation between that and the killing.

Though that's just what I think from reading this paragraph and having a seeing the video in question somewhere in the campaign. Who knows what weirdness lawyers can come up with, often it's quite far away from what I call reasonable.
So basically I am not trying to be right or wrong -as if I would care about the definition of a crime committed in some fantasy of a game-, but from that sentence and my understanding of the situation I really can't follow your argument as well.

Where did I ever saying running someone over with a car is a case of sexual assault?

You guys are pulling stuff out of thin air that I never said, which is irritating in itself. You're also completely ignoring or glossing over valid counterarguments on other points made, which makes it incredibly frustrating to boot.

See above. Nobody mentioned a car, and if you did we weren't debating "theoretical crimes you've made up".

That's what happened in the video.

Killing someone after consensual sex is not a sex crime, killing someone during (maybe after?) a rape however is a sex crime.

IMO GTA V is a game about crime. When people are shocked that they found crime in a game about crime it confuses me. If you don't like a game about crime ,THEN DON'T PLAY A GAME ABOUT CRIME.

Are we not talking about what happened in that video that is supposed to show off how bad GTA is?

What video? We weren't talking about a video until you raised it in post #108. Nobody was talking about a video before that point. We were talking about the game as a whole.

EDIT@cola_colin:

No? We're talking about what is common knowledge with the game. The first mention of a video was in post #108, at least in this tangent.

I have no idea what is being talked about it seems.... well better to stay of this topic anyway it's a minefield.

It's definitely a minefield, so I'm sorry I'm being overly-forceful. Far too easy to get lost; there are multiple convo threads going on.

Sex crime is inherently different than race crime because a race crime is defined by the motive of the act and a sex crime is defined by the method. A sex crime is a crime committed by sexual acts.

You can't commit sex crimes in GTA. All sex is with consenting adults.

So having sex with someone and then beating them in the face is not a sex crime? Argue with the sources I provided (or their sources, which Wiki always provides) if you want to be argumentative. Otherwise, don't bother.