Balance Suggestions from a Competitive Player Perspective

Who Am I?
I want to start this topic by saying that i've been playing RTS games since I was 7years old, today Im 21. I went into the competitive scene with starcraft brood war at the time and have been playing all sorts of games since then. Im that kind of guy that goes to every dreamhack, insomnia etc.
Keep in mind that this are suggestions based on my opinion and the 1v1 part of PA , although will try to justify them.

My perspective on PA:
I played supreme commander, and more games of the genre and although they are fun, they are not competitive material imo, the same can not be said with PA, it actually works as a competitive game (not meaning it could be big in the eSports scene, just talking about ladders etc.). I think uber is making really good progress and the game is becoming more fun each day, I actually bought the game for some people of my Dota team and 2 fans of total war games with the steam sale they are loving it aswell.

Balance suggestions:

Units:
-Sheller : Way too precise in my opinion, also the range is way too large imo, you can bomb units from way far away and if you have some spinners with them, they wont die.
-Leveler : The unit is okay, just add a bit of range and lower the price.
-Grenadier: The unit is well designed imo, it just needs to lower the price a little and do more splash damage.
-Bumblebee: My only problem with this unit, and I do think its fairly balanced, its for beginners, when I first began in PA people would rush me with Bumblebees all the time. If you could add something like (20% less dmg to commanders that would fix it)
- Hotkey for Commander Uber Cannon

Structures:
-I just have one suggestion with this, anti nukes have to build faster.


Overhaul and my hopes:
I think the game has pontential, buuuut... it has to have more depth in my opinion to be effective, so Im going to suggest some stuff to be added (units, structures etc.) in this section:

-More micro based units : units with skills and with cooldowns on them. This would be called "special units" or smth, and you could only have 1 at the time, they would require more metal and energy ofc.
-Cliffs: I know this mechanic is already in game and with mods, but I would like to see this more developed, miss chance, etc.
-Graphics: Someone already suggested this, dynamic stuff on the map, like lava eruptions etc. depending on the map
-More UNIQUE units. I already said this on a topic, moments ago. I think the main problem with PA is that units are kinda the same every game. That said there are no builds, you wont develop much into one thing.
- Connected to the last line, I would add upgrades to units. Enemy player building mass Air, lets do a AA damage upgrade. This is an example ofc. more examples: Movement speed of ground units upgrade, air units armor upgrade, boom bots splash damage increased. Etc. etc. This would add a layer of depth to the game , players would fight for upgrades.

Why do I think my "overhaul and hopes" are good:

One thing that I dislike about PA is that its all about mass production, macro and map control (its not bad with other stuff included, its bad if its only that imo ). That is skill based on knowledge, therefore there are individual skills lacking: Micro (Im not saying to turn PA into a micro intensive game, but one or 2 units with skills would do the job), and decision making , and this is not about map control but about the path that the player choses to go (upgrades and stuff), this would allow for more diverse strats.

UI:
- Add profiles with stats, one thing important with ladders is to study your opponent, its fun
- Icons are way too similar, makes it difficult to differentiate units, dont know if uber did this on purpose thou
- Spectator! Its a must nowadays, it also would help to teach friends.
- Units bar, a bar that shows all units that you currectly own, you could click twice on a unit to select "all those units"
-Control groups bar, a bar that shows all your control groups, if you click the hotkey for them it would show all units there. (I'll try to do some examples with images)

Ranked LeaderBoard:
- One suggestion, dont place players in uber, make them fight for it, and make them restrict to a number of players. That adds an objective to the ladder.


Attention: This opinions are only based on 1v1 ranked, not that I dont like bigger games, but my thing is competitive games, I don't feel like I have enough experience in large scale games 4v4 etc. to do a balance and suggestion topic on it. So keep in mind that this changes are based on that.

You can configure a hotkey for the Uber cannon

I doubt we will ever see more micro based units. Basically TA/FA/PA are all economy/macro style RTS. A single unit should not matter as much, with the commander being the exception.
Also I disagree that these "mass production and map control" stuff is pure based on knowledge. You need a lot of speed to do it. In fact to play a game like FA or PA on a bigger map in a high level 1vs1 with a lot of map control and mass production you will need more APM than in any micro RTS. Why? Because you have so much stuff and if you playy faster you can even have more stuff. The "rush" of playing a good game of FA (and PA on bigger maps with a few economy eco fixes I hope we will see soon :S) is about not being able to keep up with fights and expansion that takes place all around the planet(s) you are playing on.

That is not to say that specialized units are good. But they should work without active abilities.

Anyway nice to see more 1vs1 players

PA has a WYSIWYG philosophy, so sadly no armour damage for such a generic unit.

"I disagree that these "mass production and map control" stuff is pure based on knowledge"
With time you get muscle memory, you "learn" how to do that automaticly, I include that in knowledge. The APM is way lower, i've seen some people getting 500+ in starcraft, in grandmaster level ofc.

Rushes are good, harass is fine, and I like the game as it is, that why I didnt suggest anything that would change the way you play PA

Thats why I said 1 or 2 units, this game is good as it is, I just think that would add some depth and fun to the game itself.

Btw, I didnt add the AA auto prioritizing bombers because I suggested the different icons. I see lots of players doing this strat, putting 3 bombers surrounded of fighters, thats really cool. With different icons you could target more easily, this would require some micro. I think its more challenging this way

I did not specify, special units would work without special abilities , its just like a commander basicly.


How can I configure the hotkey for uber cannon btw? 1v1 players are rare ?

thank you for you answer

Thats bad D:


As I was saying I don't want the game to change, but to make that transition from early game micro to save as much units as you can in battle , to mass production and macro intensive gameplay. The game already does this , but its not that obvious. My meaning behind this changes and suggestions is to get a bigger difference between a Uber and a Plat player.

The twitch ingame is awesome btw.

EDIT: This changes would cause the players to have to use baits for skills for example. This would mean a more complex mindgame against the opponent I also love to use walls :v

AFK but if I remember right it's in the keyboard settings under alt fire.

There are a lot of micro tricks you can do early game. Moving doxes side to side, reorganizing your tanks to take advantage of wysiwyg. Micro bombers to take out aa first or fabbers, turn the bomber as soon as it dropa itS bomb to move away from commander, build walls with engineers so they can't be sniped by dox.

A lot more too, just get good noob /joke

That's a very hard to define line. You can "learn" to do everything "automatic". That's the whole point of being good: Know exactly what to do without thinking consciously.

It's true there are no 500 APM FA or PA players, but tbh I think that is because there are no professional players for those games. Nobody plays 14h a day 7 days a week FA/PA in hopes to win enough $$$ to make a good living from it, so people don't reach that high apm due to missing practice.
Also there is a difference between APM and APM. Everyone can spam and I wager that even the best sc2 pros mostly reach 500 apm through rather useless key spamming.

Just checked. Ty, btw, is there a way to configure hotkeys to extra Mouse Buttons? Im having a problem , when I click MB4 and MB5 it assigns to the "9" key

I use my mouse drive to make the right thumb keys shift and ctrl. There is no ingame setting for it afaik.

If you spam in sc2 it doesn't count as apm. You can check at the beggining of the game when they are selecting all workers, clicking on base etc. fast to warmup. Their apm at that point is low. APM in sc2 is based on individual actions, repeating the same action will not add a bigger number to APM. Its mostly because in sc2 you dont spam units like in PA, one unit finishes you place 1 other in queue, theres no higher amounts of units in queue, so you have to keep checking the building with control grounds, spamming skills , doing some micro intensive battles (blink stalkers, drops etc.) , everything at the same time.
I think thats the big difference, in PA you can queue a large amount of units , it doesnt affect your economy until they are building. In sc2 units are paid once you place in queue.

Ofc I agree with you on this one, there are no pro's or ppl spending a high amount of time in PA.

I would agree with it, if it didn't already take 20 to reliably get a kill, in the absolute absence of AA. It takes 20 boom bots to kill a commander if not intercepted. And tanks, they have infernos, not to mention are harder for the commander to shake off, 5 infernos the commander don't see in time or 15 tanks spread across a line and the commander is in trouble.

Doesn't sc2 make a difference between EAPM and APM for that reason? I though eapm is the "counts only commands" thing.

Anyway the whole point of the streaming economy is to allow for a fluent endless production of units. It's the core concept of these games and allows for a different RTS experience
You still have to do A LOT at once. The current PA balance for 1vs1 is kinda ... not expansion heavy, but in the balance I am looking for (which requires bigger maps for a start and some economy changes, we had it in gamma already, see my essay linked in my signature "of investments ...") you basically will have to manage multiple armies around at least one planet (with better UI I'd like more than one planet) that attack and defend multiple bases of yourself and your opponent. The game becomes so fast that it's all about who can keep up with more fighting in more places and about more bases. Pure adrenaline really

I've played a lot of SupCom:FA, which has a balance more for this kind of play already -PA just is in a bad phase I am sure it'll get better again, even now it's not as bad as I make it sound xD-. I have also played a lot of SC2.
In FA I was top 10 to top 20 for years, in SC2 I was master league (so I think top 10000 or what does that mean? xD. Light years away from the top for sure I know), so I have a general idea of both games and tbh SupCom:FA feels "faster" to play. You need to do more. Not more in the sense of "queue new unit, activate ability", but more "move army, expand base, build new base, rebuild lost mex, move army, move army2, move air etc" all over the map.
The game has no phase without fighting. SC2 in turn feels "slow" for the most time, as you can quite often see players building up with only a little harras here and there. Basically players build up their base at 200+ APM and are under full load just by building a base and scouting and a little of harassment.
Ofc in fight SC2 gets very intense as well, but my honest opinion really is, after playing 2k hours of FA and 800h of SC2: FA is more intense and a bigger adrenaline "you need to be faaaaster" rush on average over all 1vs1 I played simply because it has no fixed bases and an economy that is all about spamming units everywhere. Even without complex per unit commands these units all want to be controlled and all the bases want to grow by you placing more structures.

I want PA to top FA in that regard. With multiple planets it has the potential to do it.

The game used to be a much more engaging balance; hopefully that returns.

For the moment I've just been playing around with balance mods.

Lets hope

No micro heavy units please. I want a game where STRATEGY is what gets you the win, not your clicking speed. PA needs work to get to that point, but adding micro heavy units is the wrong direction.

That was my point. Strategy is also based on micro, not only macro. I don't see the point of the game being only macro based without any micro. You already have the uber cannon, it plays a big part of the game. What difference would it make to have 2 more units with ubercannon like skills?

If you call strategy making shift click buildings all over the place, scouting and harassing with your mass production, its okay, I respect that. But thats not my opinion. Also micro is not the clicks, thats apm.

My opinion is that strategy is based on a group of things, macro is one of them, but as I said earlier it will get to muscle memory, you will do everything automaticly, with the exception of unit composition, and then you have almost no micro in pa to compensate that skillcap, you just push forward in multiple directions against the enemy base, not letting him expand and at the same time giving you more room to expand. Micro is the thing that makes each game different, also the reason why sc2 is so popular, each game is a game. What Im saying by this is that unit production and base expanding is good, but fighting battles in the best way is also good. Micro units doesnt need to be key spamming, it can be just a passive shield for example. I just want more battle options, I feel like the game is falling into a meta, and thats bad, really bad.

Lets review one unit for example, the pelican, noone uses pelicans. Now lets compare to another unit which does exactly the same thing in sc2: the medivac, everyone uses medivacs, ofc the medivac also heals, thats not the point, the point is the mass harassment that you can do without your units dying. This makes the enemy invest in air defenses, he will spend money and thats bad for his macro. As you see this proves that micro affects macro, and macro affects micro. I've tried that in pa but it cannot be done, cause you need to have mass pelicans and units autoattack even on the move, they dont stop to attack, one can only transport one unit. if you had a next tier pelican that could transport 4 units, that would be enough. A game that is macro based and a transporter can only carry one unit? I dont agree with that. The only game I had that pelicans worked was with snipers, but I had to have some units scouting at the same time. I was rotating the snipers around their base with pelicans, since he went tanks, he didnt have the mobility to be in every corner at the same time, so he had to divide the units between corners, in one of those corners (the 1v1 maps have 3 entrances, thats what Im refering to) I did a mass push with heavy units while in another I did a mass push with boom bots. That worked quite well x) But just because he went tanks he didnt had the range or the mobility to defend.

I find myself in most games just looking at the enemy base , using control groups and shift click to build stuff. In the enemy base I have 3 control groups (one for each enemy base entrance with shift click for air units (to pull them back if needed, or front). Leaving no space for the enemy to expand while I expand every second of the game. Games are won at 6-7 minutes time already.

I love the game, but I know that this will become boring in 1 month or 2. Im trying to create new uncommon strats to mess with, going down the ranks :v Maybe with time people will have more strats etc. But in the currect state the game doesnt offer that much strategy (excluding mods). You win by out producing your opponent, not by strategy. Theres no such thing as a tank killing 4 tanks for example. Maybe I played sc for so long that I dont agree with other systems, but I need to care about my units, I dont agree with the spam units and let them die system , there has to be a punishment about losing units.

This games premise is strictly against micro. Strategy has nothing to do with micro, strategy is macro and tactics is micro.

Sorry but that's been something that's been a part of the game since the get-go.

Though if you want tactics there are a few balance mods that help bring in some tactics.

Edit: I'm saying this as someone who likes some micro and thinks the game would be fun with it, but I know that it doesn't have a place in vanilla, which is- enter obligatory "why I made statera" here.

strategy, especially in all caps is a completely meaningless word. Please define in extremely fine details.

Uff I missed that new post:

A nice example of how everyone defines strategy in different ways

We actually don't have it yet
Also there is no special function included. Either Uber will directly provide a way to do an "endless produce and shoot there" or a mod will do it. In fact I already have a good idea how that very likely will work as a mod

The reason why these are not used anymore is a complex balance reason. Too long to explain now, but we had balancing (how I miss it) before that did allow very effective drops:

http://www.twitch.tv/colacolin/c/4020850
watch minute 15:20 a pelican drop with vanguards straight out wins the game by destroying a substantial number of t2 pgens.
Things that changed since then:

- t1 changes that prevent any substantial expansion, which in turn takes away the required economy from players for t2 (in the video I have 800+ metal/s in minute 16 of the game, see my signature "Of investments ...")
- a massive nerf to the vanguard
- smaller maps with fixed spawns.

These are imho all issues created by 3 things:
- tiny maps in ranked
- economy balance is broken: Energy is more important than metal and wrecks are missing
- You are playing not against good enough opponents

Also the interesting part of PA is to think how to grow at maximum speed while attacking at the best times. Out manuveur your opponent, trick them into making a wrong move with a whole army so you can attack an unprotected base, etc.
That's more interesting than 1 tank killing 4 tanks any day to me.