How and why modding should be more of an integral part of Vanilla PA.

Not many games are exploitable in that way. For example, Skyrim mods can't run arbitrary code and are sandboxed. PA mods are sandboxed from the filesystem, but they can still do most things that a browser can do. I can't speak for all steam games with workshop content though; it's an interesting question.

Hold on here.

Why does it have to be one with no subjectivity? This isn't a game that appeals to everyone and features are added all of the time that people should disagree with. If mods are to be implemented to vanilla, then I see no reason why we should hold them to standards that we don't hold anything else that's implemented.

It should be added by majority vote I suppose, if a mod is popular then that means it would (PROBABLY) do more good than harm, subjectively speaking.

Something that could deeply help is:

1: A news feed, giving out info on PA, update dates, etc...

2: An in-game public chat room. <3

This is about implementing an existing mod to save Uber time, vs Uber implementing the content of the mod themselves. If something is obviously missing from the game, is small and has no reasonable grounds for objection, then Uber should consider it. But for any kind of balance mod, or mod that changes the game in a way that's questionable as to whether it fits in the vision that Uber have for PA, then it should be left as a mod and not put in the core game - that's the point of mods. You are not going to reach agreement that Statera, RCBM or any other balance mods are even close to 100% what PA should be. The very fact that there are multiple re-balance mods shows that there are differing opinions on that. These kinds of mods are what I mean by subjective - there's multiple ways of doing what they do, and no clear consensus.

The point of this would be to save Uber time implementing what they would do anyway, not simply to include mods for their own sake.

I would rather ask what mods should be included and not whether mods should be included.

If you said system sharing i would agree with you.

If you said community uberbalance mod, i would say no thankyou.

I agree, there are a base set of mods needed for things like tournament play (PA:Stats + Map Sharing) and other very popular additions like Hotbuild and so on.

There are other sets of mods that are preferable for the 'screenshot guys' and casters (e.g. custom skybox, team coloured effects and so on).

Similarly there are sets of mods out there purely for single player and GW play.

The issue at the moment is that the existence of these is hidden from the majority of the player base. There really needs a way to make people aware of them, and which ones are recommended for which type of player (e.g. you like single player GW, get new modes / more load-outs / tweaks to difficulty from this mod pack)....

I think PAMM is fine for managing the mods, for now if there could be something added into the game that points people towards PAMM that would be a big improvement. I guess Uber have been reluctant to promote mods too much partly because they are still adding in things that are capable of breaking mods. That is probably *why* it hasn't happened yet, and may well remain that way until the core features of the engine are more stable / unlikely to change.

I would assume Uber haven't added heavy modding support because they're still very busy building PA

System Sharing is a great example of what @raevn was saying. That is a mod that doesn't work the way (front end and bback end) that I would expect it to if Uber did it. I also maintain a list of map servers for it and the mod would be nothing without that list. Uber can't make System Sharing without completely starting over.

Which is why many of us would simply like to make the current mods more visible.... There's nothing wrong with your implementation from a user view point. The main issue is newer players can't find it.

Just posting to point out that this is a horrendously contrived comparison and you shouldn't use it.

Please.

generaly speaking i have no problem with features and content from mods to be properly fixcoded into vanila if they prove to be worthwile to the game ...
and of course the original creators of those mods/features/content should be credited

I think uber can profit a lot by making mods more visible. Put a mod market inside the game, when u open it, a disclaimer appears that says "you are about do install user generated content, This may have unintended effects on the game, uber is not responsible for undesired effects", that solves any legal point. A map sharing market would be awesome too. Good mod support extends the life shelf of a game and helps retain the player base.

About integrating mods i would say: for simple and small stuff, sure fire away. But for bigger stuff i don't agree. I think uber could absorb mods that change things that are incremental but don't change the core gameplay, explosion effects, system sharing, pastats, autoselect your favorite colour, hotbuild, and such. But not balance mods such as statera, RCBM, space overhaul mod, ect because those are verging on total conversions of the game (I'm not saying they should ignore those mods, but that they should be taken more as an inspiration than being implemented straight out of the box).

As for voting content in I would disagree, sure it seems awesome at first glance but these decisions should be made by the development team. We have all seen what catering to the masses has done to the videogame industry: with dumbed down bland games. This opens precedents that can turn this game into something else that is not that good, so i say trust the development team.

Yeah, I really wouldn't expect something like my mod to be implemented as default.

Like it's good fun, but not for most people really, the gameplay is far too long.

Mass balance change mods where it's questionable if you can even call them balance mods and not "different game inside of PA" shouldn't be on the table for inclusion, I'm agreed there. Minor balance mods are less questionable but still fairly questionable.

Stuff like Awesome Projectiles or CPlosion should be up for consideration, however.

PA Stats is pretty much the same, just a big step up in complexity.
Apart from very simple mods there is not much Uber can copy in that regard. The difference between how mods are written and how Uber writes the game is just too big.

I haven't done anything other than editing the factory unit lists in terms of ui mods, so excuse my ignorance- but don't most just shadow files, which means actually putting them in those correct areas should simply do the exact same thing as it would shadowed?

Only the really bad ones shadow files, most do not need that and don't do it. You'd see much more issues after patches if they would regularly shadow files

I believe I have a solution for the liability issue by taking a page from free software and open source movements. Uber could insert a section in the EULA that deals with user generated content/modifications. It could deal with basic permissions, liability on Uber and user generated content/modifications author parts.

Now on the topic of this thread. If Uber where to put mods into the game they should seek prior written permission from the author or some kind of standard form contract. Uber should also foster an environment where people freely share and work together for the benefit of all. In order to protect and encourage modding of PA and prevent fighting within the modding scene.


Edit: As part of the basic permissions; the mod author would grant a irrevocable license to all players to use, modify, etc (not including any commercial activity) their work. Uber would be able to implement mods into the game in whole or part. Uber would have to be able to ensure the quality of the game.

Edit2: Also would point out the current EULA does not allow modding for discussion on that go here. In short it's technically illegal to modify PA for now.

I think at the moment everyone is pretty much sharing everything with everyone already