Yo Dawg I Herd You Liek Experimentals

It's not Uber you're taking from, it's from the people who paid $1000 for an exclusive commander. If official word comes back from Uber that this kind of modding is not "allowed", then this should be taken down from PAMM - that's the same stance as with other mods that uber deem not "allowed", which make commanders playable (sorry @stuart98, it really does look awesome).

The worst that would happen is this. Stuart would get new models and that's that. While it's a bit iffy to be using the exclusive comms, it does save time and works out well, and if Uber is okay with it, so the better.

Anyway @stuart98 interesting mod.

I'm not doing anything more with the mod anyway until I hear Uber's stance on this (and get a model for the artillery megabot).

Why not just ask the specific models owners for their permission? I'm sure having their creation made an ultimate end game weapon wouldn't offend them!

Really, this is the sad truth. Tbh, doing it off PAMM as a white box test isn't that terrible, it is just an available model. I would eventually just make the end-goal to make a giant model. You could use re-scaled vanilla units, like gil-e, stinger, boombot, slammer, ect...

This forum is crazy sometimes. We've now completely invented a moral dilemma without even knowing if anyone who actually bought these commanders cares. Has the person who owns this particular bot come in and said it bothers them? Do they even still play PA? Are we going to hypothetically keep these models exclusive long after Uber packs up and moves on, or goes out of business? We're not 'taking' anything from these people: they got exactly what they paid for, an exclusive access to a particular form of digital media. Repurposing the models for an unofficial mod is giving them added value for their purchase that was never originally promised.

I can't believe how happy you guys are to get your panties all twisted up over something as simple as community reuse of these assests. If it were uber reusing them in some kind of for profit expansion, or reselling access to these commanders, then I would surely understand. But we're talking about an unofficial player made mod outside the original scope of commander models. There is no issue here, but you've all done a great job bending over backwards to create one!

Not everyone visits the forums, and it's not up to us to determine that the backer has given their ok in absentia, at least not this soon after release (I agree after time it can be hard/impossible to contact the author, and then it's a different story - this happened a number of times with old mods in Supreme Commander, after the author stopped visiting the forums). I agree if permission is given by the backers in question it should be fine, but it should by no means be presumed ok, quite the opposite: it should be presumed not ok unless the backer comes here and says so (or otherwise communicates this).

Edit: Another way to look at it: would you use statera or RCBM models without asking?

Sorry, but that has got to be one of the most weird and contradictory justifications i've ever seen.

You are taking something away from these people, namely their exclusive access.

That added value statement is pretty silly as well. How do you know they will find value in their re-purposed model? This is like saying it's ok to steal IP from some artist, modify it a bit, and then say it's ok because you're giving back value to the original artist. Like what.

*I still think it's pretty awesome what custard's done and that PA could use with some awesome mega-size type units though.

No, your not. They still have exclusive access to them as commanders. Using the models in a mod doesn't change that in anyway. The analogy to intellectual property doesn't fit here; this is not their IP, it's uber's. You are not stealing anything from them at all by reusing it for non-commercial purposes. They can still use it on non-modded servers and you can't. The promised exclusivity has no bearing on their reuse in mods; if it did then Uber could not have released offline servers without compromising that. At the end of the day nothing has been lost and something has been gained, that's all i'm saying.

You talking about enforcing the unenforceable. There is no power legal or otherwise that can stop me from making a mod with these models and hosting servers with it. With offline servers, that cat is out of the bag. I'm sure you advocated for offline servers: you can't have it both ways and ask us to politely respect imaginary ownership of a 3D model. You can choose not to play it, you can choose not to host it on PAMM, but at the end of the day you have zero ability to enforce this supposed right. Kickstarter backers who believe otherwise don't understand what crowd funding really is. It is a donation with 'promised' rewards that have no legal backing. An enforceable right is not a right at all. Uber promised exclusivity of commander use and that is what they delivered within their ability to do so.

At the end of the day you guys are kidding yourselves if you think the modding scene won't eventually make use of all of the 30+ models added by 'exclusive' commanders. The mods at that point will become near total conversions. There is an extreme scarcity of new models and modelling is currently the highest barrier to new unit creation. These models are going to see use in mods, maybe not now, but eventually.

Now make those baddies, travel trough vast distances of spess.
This could be nice way for starting invasion if they could be dropped on enemy planet.

Modelling has become simple, using custom commanders rather than making your own unit is simply a bit lazy and rude to use without consent. :/

We now know how to get custom models and animations into the game from 3Ds Max, there's nothing holding us back.

That's all true. But it also has zero relevance as to whether or not it's the correct thing to do. This is scarily close to the argument of "might is right", since it follows the same principle ("you can't stop me, so I'm allowed to"). Uber does not condone server modding commanders in so they can be played by those who haven't got them, for example, but there's nothing stopping them from being made. But on the forum, and out of respect PAMM also, you will not see those mods be distributed. This mod doesn't yet fall in that category, as there is no word from Uber that they don't condone it. But it's still polite to ask the backers who they belong to (this isn't a jab at @stuart98 - I absolutely believe there was no intent to do anything wrong here on his part).

No you know whats actually rude, talking a false feeling of guilt onto someone. The private conversations that may or may not have happened between the makers and the KS backers are none of our business to begin with. I don't really see why people think that it is. Now, since we are all on a place where it is considered completely normal to get involved with other peoples business and make accuses on everyone while making only assumptions, i'd say with a crowd like this it is just as normal to use every single model you like and use it how you want without take **** from anybody. I would not let myself be stopped by such a rude and personal crowd at all, but i gues everyone here is extra-alert since there is MONEY on the table with the potential mod-marketplace around the corner. How wonderfull how that influences us all.

where can i get the mod? #giveittomenow

so what i get from this thread ... it seems ok to just mod in the models that are supposed to be buyed as commanderskins ...
why should i pay for that stuff if i can make it myself, right? ...
hey i am not using that stuff for commanderskins but i am using it as its own unit ... surely that is moraly not wrong!/s ... you want to use models that are meant to be payed for ...
why should i pay for that skin if i can have it in the game in another form ...
speak about moraly bankrupt people ... either that or simply naiv ...

... i can go aswell just go out and punch some random old women in a wheelchair in the face ... because screw police and morals ...

... but whatever ... do whatever you want ...

Mot, you really think it is ok for someone to use a commander model they did not pay for?

Do you have any commanders you bought with money? Mind if i go ahead and mod them into my own games without paying a cent?

we are kidding ourselves aswell thinking people never ever would go and punch random old women in a wheelchair in the face ... doesn´t make it any less immoral, no?

You wouldn't download a car would you?