Some thoughts on balance

I actually play tons more FFA and team games than 1v1s. This isn't an isolated opinion lol.

The more you post about the 'Meta' the more I realize you've not been playing the game all that much against the good 1 v 1 players. Try that build against me... I'll have killed your 1 expansion fabber before it's built you 1 mex and will be bombing your blobs of dox.

That *was* the meta when the dox patch first dropped, it has moved on since then. Dox / air is workable. Dox -> vehicles also works well. Dox all game = gg frankly.

Edit: A nice example of what I'm talking about between two palyers in the top 10 (PA Stats ladder)...:

In a lot of scenarios there's more to a winning strat than dox rushing.
Large planets or isolated starts make an eco start much more viable, crowded FFA starting planets with a lot of other available planets make a quick escape a good option, choosing which neighbors to engage can be vital etc etc.

I'm at about 500hrs now, public lobby larger FFAs and team armies and I'd say I get steamrolled by dox fairly rarely.
There still seems to be a nice mix of how people play, still see nuke rushes, orbital snipes, air snipes, eco heavy turtles and so on. I don't think the balance is so out of whack.

Except naval. But that's in an incomplete state so we can ignore.

??

I only play 1v1s against good players. And you can try that bomber stuff on my dox. Forget it. It doesn't work. I'll micro and kill your bomber, or dodge the bombs all day long. And Gandalf or BC or any of the other guys will tell you the same. hat wasn't the meta when the patch first dropped - the meta was tanks at first, then people realized that dox were easier and just dominated. Dox all game isn't gg. I can be all over the map, stopping all your expansions, then drawing your comm out for a boom snipe. FFAs? Dox, fighters, and boom snipes. GG. Team games? Spam dox on larger planets, with fighter cover. Boom snipes on comms for smaller maps. Infernos for moons. Invade with quick tele if all else fails. Drop millions of dox through multiple teles. It's not hard if you've practiced.

Looks like u guys will have to settle this in a joust!

This is why I feel that my mod does well in not removing the dox AA, but making it weaker against targets like bombers.

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/rel-igndox.65575/

So, slightly more expensive dox should solve the problem

Nope. Take away Dox AA and give them the vision of Tanks. I've tested it in 1v1s, FFAs, and Team Games. It works great so far. T1 diversity is awesome.

How about a cost multiplier for each of air, bots, tanks and orbital in the lobby?
Then you could tweak each match in the favor of one over the other.

Check this out 15 minutes and 9 seconds in of this video. Here's a direct link to that timestamp.

(in regards to dox vs bombers)

I'm up for it.. rules have to be vanilla balance, and I win if I'm able to force mered to make units other than dox, or if I win whilst using anything other than pure dox....

Someone from PAG learned me an awesome little trick regarding bombers and hitting dox.. lets just say mered, Ill rip your dox like no tomorrow right now.

Mind meld OP.

So it was clopse then

Could be. Idk tbh ^^

My thoughts about the Game/Balance

This game allows for perfect balance when the maps become symmetrical or at least close to it since both players are the same faction, the only thing unbalanced is the maps currently someone spawning with 0 metal nodes and someone spawning with 5 for example or both players start with 3 but some guy gets 10 near him and the other guy gets none for example, other then that the game is 100% balanced

I do not think we can judge "balance of units" until balance of maps is fixed

I believe all the 1v1 maps are way to small, with not enough choke points for any real late game or strategy, I think the maps need to be 3-4x`s bigger with obstacles that players have to go around or so players can wall off and get some turrets up in time before 500 dox come to there face, I think with bigger maps we will see much more tier two and be able to work from there on little things to tweak, heck with decent sized maps with chokes and fair spawns I bet we would see some nukes and other sorts of things in 1v1, sure have 1 or two rush maps in the map pool, but lettuce get some good fair maps going before we change the balance of units.

I think dox should be slightly more expensive so they are still good at raiding undefended Mex but can't be so easily massed into giant death balls.

I still think Dox should be made weaker, and then take away the bolo's vision range, so that you really have to use both to get the best of both.

Really, they don't need AA from what I played. Besides that, they could use a price increase. They are hella fast, hella long vision, and really cheap to deploy. Avoiding deathballs with them simply amounts to removed AA and a price of 60. For variety, make the grenadier 90 and do 75% an ant's damage at 75% the rate of fire. Then you got variety. Heck, worried about dedicated AA, then build a single vehicle factory and increase the spinner speed to 13-14 to make it viable to assist. Or hummingbirds from an air fact. Really, the commander's starting AA no longer requires bot AA.

Here is the reason for this:

1) Bot AA removed. Dox were really UP, no amphibious or AA or damage or vision, and slightly more cost.
2) Bot wasn't viable to start, or really use.
3) Dox given amphibious.
4) Bot still not enough damage.
5) Dox given AA, bit more damage, 25% reduced cost, and more vision.
6) Dox becomes mostly the whole game.
7) Commander given AA and torpedo

Now, when we look at it, the grenadier is completely weak, the combat fabber isn't cost effective, and the commander was given starting game AA to alleviate first-factory-bot problems. We can REALLY revert some changes:

1) Revert dox cost up 15 metal, revert their AA, keep or lower vision idk idc. Their damage is acceptable.
2) Buff grenadiers. They used to be stronger, don't make that strong, but bring them back to usefulness for variety.
2) Revert Commander Ubercannon Armor-scaling on buildings, buildings got 3x health buff since, this is obsolete and structures no longer need it.
3) Revert Combat Fabber cost to 350, it was increased to 700 back when it could assist to make it inefficient to build bases with.
4) Revert turret cost increase, that was back before a tank health buff and turrets would be viably snipeable with better grenadiers.

In Hindsight Uber: KEEP A CHANGE LOG, REVERT STUFF YOU LATER FIX ELSEWHERE. You say balance levers change other levers. Well, I apparently know this better than anyone here, because I am noticing changing 1 lever, then changing a similar lever, which changes the same lever even more. I can deal with over-buffing and over-nerfing to "gauge the middleground", but don't nerf horizontally or buff horizontally and not undo previous buffs/nerfs that become obsolete.

There are quite a few tricks but I'm guessing you are talking about the clan wars game. Was it the 6 bomber s dropping in seperate places one?