making eco option viable with minimal changes converstion; bouncing ideas evolve each other

well more to the point I just need to build more fabbers lol. but that said. that is around the 5 min mark. storage is nice to have and all.. but in the same time you could've build a factory and get some units out. If you manage your pgens well then you don't need to build the storage because you simple wont use that energy.. In top 1v1's the limiting factor is metal. not energy. In Team games this is often visa versa though.

If that really were the case you'd see people expand way more. You expand to get metal after all.

Ohw but Expanding is key and you know that. If you don't keep up with your expanding your eco is gonna crash because of you keeping building factories. Once you crash and are on 50% eff than its really hard to get back in.

The problem now is that you build as many factory's as you can while keep on expanding and keep that in balance. harassing is thus a major part. Dox are the best for raiding BUT are also the unit which strength grows exponentially (or however you spell that word).

The reason people don't build proxy bases is because the easiest and fastest unit you can build is super versatile. Energy is 9 out of 10 times not an issue because that is just using and executing a propper build order. The metal is always harassable (low health compared to pgens).

The game right now is too fast pased for proxy's to actually mean anything. If you have the time to build a proxy base, the other one probably has 50% of his boombot / bomber snipe complete or is massing up an army to destroy your main.

(on a side note: Did you know that 4 mex only gives you 27 metal instead of 28 )

lol @ 4 mex.
But I disagree on the energy part. You need more energy for proxys to be viable. What you call "expansion" isn't really expansion, it's just taking a few mex at a slow pace to me.

Fair enough I can understand that. There are indeed never any proxy bases. But that is because there are multiple issues and can't be linked to only one. The energy problem you say is a very valid reason but because Dox are somewhat OP for their intention the effect snowballs and expansions become not valid. They both are the problem not one or the other.

Yeah the fact that the dox is such a crazy good raider sure is the final death sentence to any sort of expansion attempts that go beyond carefully taking mexes.
Though I think that the energy/metal balance is the bigger issue, but I am sure you know my thoughts on that

I do ^^ And thinking of possible solutions to eco hurts my head so I leave that to you haha

Actually myself and @buckfast9 have been experimenting with e storage, and with an e storage early game (probably after 2nd fac) you *can* run 2 expansion fabbers instead of 1 for getting metal extractors without *any* additional pgens.

The reason this works is:
1: Mex don't take long to build so use relatively little energy (provided your not metal stalling)
2: There is walking time between metal points to re-charge the storage.

A single energy storage does make the energy economy *much* more efficient to the point it can give an advantage imo...

I'm going to make uber With more than 3 fabbers or die trying.

Where have you been the last months?!
I haven´t seen any OP doxes for such a long time...
...or are you referring to 200SizePlanets?

Yea, I agree too that having bigger maps will lead to big changes in meta and make several playstyles more viable.

Problem is if we start playing bigger maps with long start distances, the game becomes an air battle. Then people will say air is op etc and every game becomes air spam which is much more apm intensive which will spread the gap even more with apm- skill ratios.

Doesn´t have to---it can also become a teleporter-focused-game! Or a naval-game!
Or an "base at enemies door"-game
In other words: Its supporting the varity of strats quite well!

Has anybody actually ever played enough games with the current balance on big planets to verify this?

Can't say 100% that air is op on large planets, but it is indeed very strong. If you fail to contest your opponents air force, you will die almost 100%

It's basically down to relative speeds. Dox is currently strong because it's almost twice as fast as tanks.

And air is ~4 times over dox so yea..

Water maps have naval. Small maps with spawn metal have tanks. Larger maps with spread out have bots. Overly large maps have air. It is just common ecostructure. It doesn't mean you can't use dox/slammer in naval, bots in short range, tanks in medium range, or tanks teleported in long range. It just means you need to start air to spread your eco perimeter infrastructure far out enough, fast enough.

nnnnnnnnnnnnot qqqqqquite.......

Well, comboxing has bots, but that is just because of space limitations. To be completely fair, comboxing has coms mainly and bots are just support and it has just as much pelters tbh.

Who is the girl. It's for science.

@clopse hmmmmmmmmm I dunno?


jokes aside I think you might like google images and tineye. just don't go using these two weapons of mass erection I just gave you for anything naughty, 'kay?