Some thoughts on balance

Yep. Perfect example of one of the points @metabolical pointed out in his "why is the balance forums a waste of time". We end up talking up subjective stuff. Then we break down onto semantics.
And then I realize I just spent 2 hours on this forums talking about nothing.

.... like now.

/leaves to buy cookies

Raider: A unit that is meant to be able to attack weak points in the opposing base so as to destroy economic structures.

If your dictionary does not have a similar word related to this definition, I suggest that maybe you are using an incomplete dictionary.

At that point there's no point in talking about anything on the forums. If every argument is going to ignore the spirit of the point, and instead focus on the semantics, then nothing gets achieved.

So the forums are essentially pointless.

Do you want you have a conversation about the minimum level of definition a unit needs to fulfil an intended role? It's a conversation I'm willing to have if you're willing to cut the BS and actually address the issues I have with the game, rather than picking apart the argument because you define things differently.

That is correct.

by your definition .. arguing semantics .. again ..

Funny how I was just about to make a post about it.

I know Uber hasn't sewn unit cannon quite as a saviour to stalemates everyone expects it to be, but I think it is. The reason behind this is PA planets are small. The biggest one that isn't a gas giant has a radius of 1300 METERS. This means that unlike a real size planet a unit can go around its circumference in less then 15 minutes, even if it's a big one and a slow unit, the result of which is an incredibly easy way to defend and lock down your planets. This is why a transportation system that requires a unit on both your world and the enemies (may it be the same one or a different, receiving one) just isn't capable of dealing with this situation.

Yep. If they are used for threads like these. Threads like this on are pointless. (EDIT: actually what @jables posted is NOT pointless, but most of our discussion is)
I am not saying that balance discussions per se are pointless, but this form is.

There is stuff that you can argue about on the forums though. You just need to go into areas that are less subjective and better defined or can be easily verified. For example technical stuff. Math. Modding. How to win the game.

For balance I think the best possible are more indirect communication approaches, and to me it looks like Uber is going that way as well. I do hope the effective speed of itetrations on balance is going to increase, but I doubt we will ever have a red name participate in a thread like this one. It would be a waste of their time.

So.

I want an active PTE balance stream where the devs actually listen to those of us who take the time to extensively test their theories. Is that unreasonable?

I'm sure they listen, but you can't require them to agree.

That would require time and money, probably more of them than the good it owuld do, so maybe it is

I would never do such a thing. So long as they do not weight my opinion above or below any other bloke without merit.

Indirect and non-participatory?

That sure doesn't sound like actively involving the community in the game to me, or in fact, having any real interaction with the community at all.

While what @jables has posted isn't "pointless", it certainly isn't interacting with the community in any meaningful way, as you yourself have conceded.

Haven't we done that here on the forums?

Like we have all stretched out long lists of why's and why not's on every given topic.

Would would a live stream have greater results.

If anything a live stream would essentially be the same as the forum, only we can see them reading the text we send to them.

A PTE STREAM, brotha.

As in, test-release.

I know what you intend, I just do understand how it will actually have an effect.

How is a PTE balance stream better than playing a balance mod. Especially since in a day or two you can play mods with randoms easily? A balance PTE would probably see less players compared to balance mods?

Because the devs will get a swift and direct feedback loop.
They'd easily be able to see if what they are trying to implement is crazy OP or underpowered quickly. Especially if they had this one guy streaming and coding the whole time, spectating test games for results. That would be awesome.

The specifics aren't really that important. What matters is the quick feedback loop.

It would be the same thing as me playing a balance mod with randoms, except it would be the devs playing a balance mod with experienced and skilled players. (who else goes to the PTE lol).

Umm dude, software development in the professional world doesn't work like that.

You do NOT get to change a bunch of values willy nilly.

So you want to do games with the devs. Well that is different to just having an extra PTE.
Balance test games on the PTE stream, like we actually had a few month ago seemed like a good idea to me as well.
I can't remember why they stopped. Did they create stupid drama like this thread?

Actually from a technical perspective you could certainly do such "playtest, change value, playtest, change value" iteration pretty quickly. Though I think the playtest phase has to be a few days of pure playtime, so weeks in real time at MINIMUM. So yeah *fast* iteration.