Will gas giants get balanced?

dude. wake up.

Uber have managed to make air 2.0 happen (please don't tell me you think it's not already the case) with a single offensive orbit unit on the roster and now with two on the roster.

number ......of offensive orbital units is far from being the question here, I think. do we agree?

Currently I'd say it's more like land 2.0, as it doesn't play like air does.

air 2.0 is actually an expression from the supcom community. (also referred to as the "blob of death")

the reason you feel like calling it "land 2.0" is because someone from faf would call PA's land "air 2.0" also.

Ah, I had always thought it was people not wanting orbital to be a rehash of air except in space.

basically that. but the air SC and FA knew ....with the indissociable blob of death.

What diversity? Haggling over details. We don't need to come up with specific unit ideas to know that ground combat lacks diversity.

The issue is that the vast majority of players only use 2 maybe 3 combat units. That is bad.

If you want specific ideas, just look at RCBM and Statera for ideas. They have a light and fast vehicle with a gatling gun. An armored riot control tank. Hover tanks. And... oy. been a while since I've played them. Additional bombers and aircraft... a missile barrage unit... and... eh. Can't remember. But you catch my drift. There are plenty of possibilities.

But again, the specifics of the potential solutions aren't needed to understand that there is a problem with current gameplay.

Not true in the slightest. Orbital combat is closely tied to gas giants. If orbital combat has more to it, then fighting over the gas giants can be better balanced and gas giants can be better balanced.

you've not understood the point : nothing about instant infinity resources is balanced. I don't care WHAT orbital unit you whip out.

Well, it's not instant infinity, but I do see your point. However, it doesn't matter what we do to Jigs themselves, if orbital combat isn't interesting and balanced, nothing that we do to Jigs will be balanced.

So it's kinda like, nothing we do to orbital combat (individually) will balance gas giants and nothing we do to Jigs (individually) will balance gas giants.

We need to fix both issues in order to properly balance Gas Giants.

All of this just further points to 1.0 being a rushed launch. There's so much potential to Gas Giants but they feel... very rushed. There isn't much that's unique to them, and they still need a lot of work.

actually touching the jigs alone could get us to 99% perfect gaz giant balance according to my beliefs.

Doesn't matter how Jigs are balanced stat wise, if the attacking and defending of them isn't any good, gas giants won't be balanced.

why?

when I never hear you talking at all about the attacking and defending of mexes?

try to reason by A + B that's the only thing I understand.

btw I love that attacking and defending mexes doesn't matter all that much on bigger scale maps.

it's quite alright.

but if we're going to attempt to instore balance through a new credo, let's start by the roots, not the roof, shall we?

Balanced isn't the right word here. It would be balanced, what it wouldn't be is fun.

I agree though, several points need to be looked at, starting with adding more depth to orbital warfare.

Well I can't say I have played many games with this many levels of play, so actually balancing them is kinda hard to do without having a prior point of reference.

None historical, and really the only fictional examples are straight up star wars, so that's kinda hard to do with legitimate satellites (Unless uber decides to utterly and completely re do every asset in the orbital layer to do so) that are based on a 1960's version of space warfare.

so what if they use only 2 to 3 combatunits for when they don´t need more? why exactly is that bad?
just because spectators don´t see different flavors of units?

not long before you spoke about roles and i asked you before too what roles are actualy missing in the current unitpool?
just adding more units that do the same role doesn´t diversefy gameplay ... people just start to build the units they see the most efficient ... while others still won´t get used ... it becomes a thing of what flavor of ice am i going to take and which not ...

why do i need a missilebaragebomber when a gunship can do its work as well perhaps even more reliantly or use the standart bumblebee for AoE? if i want to make more precision bombing/sniping why should i use it intsead of the vanila hornet?
what does that gatlingvehicle do differently than the vanilladox?

Why is it bad? Because there's no diversity and variety. If all of the games play the same with the same units over and over, there's little skill, there's little variety, and there's little excitement. That's bad for spectators and players.

What does it do differently? Go play it and find out.

You're right. Adding more units to do the same role doesn't add diversity. And that's not what I'm advocating for.

I'm advocating for more unit diversity. Units that fill different roles. You can have fast attack. Hit and run. Suicide. Mainstay. Slow and heavy hitter. Glass cannon. Long range. Short range. Good at taking out single high health units. Good at taking out lots of low health units. Middle ground all around. Rapid fire. AOE. Precision. Multi-layer (fires at air and ground). Targets just one layer (like air or orbital). Good at taking out buildings. Good at taking out units.

There are way more roles than "one unit that does all" like we currently have.

and i ask again which of the roles in your opinion are still missing and were ... you still didn´t answer that question ...

i personaly see hit n runs be done with doxes and gunships, i do see people use heavyhitters like the vanguard, leveler, inferno or hornet .. or long range siege with shellers and bluehawks, unitsnipe with gil- es ... i do see swarms getting squashed by bumblebees and shellers ...
all of the stuff you mentioned is already in vanilla imo ...

I think orbital artillery could be done, like a mini version of the annihilasor for long range anti-orbital fire.

Give us some sort of cruiser that is a structure cracker in orbit, it wipes the floor with anchors and factories, but can be swarmed by avengers, avengers lose health, so that anchors now blitz them, they're no longer useful for killing anchors, so you need to use the new cruisers to do it, but then the mini-annihilasor kills cruisers at range, so to take those out, you need to swarm them with avengers, where the minilaser loses because it wastes all its dps on overkilling individual avengers.

That way you need both unit types to attack in concert against an orbital entrenchment.

You could also add some sort of high rate of fire gunnery ship that is anti-avenger swarms, keep the two cruisers slow, and speed up avengers, so that avengers become fast raiders against jigs or satellites or solar panels that can't really handle any substantial defenses.

the other potential that you can have is that only avengers, T1 radar sats, transports and fabbers (and maybe sxx) can move between orbital layers freely, everything heavier needs to use orbital teleporters or something. This might help to ground orbital and help it develop some more restricted front lines rather than the chaos of everything popping in anywhere, since orbital 'bases' would be centered around wherever you can safely get an orbital teleporter up.

I feel like this sorta setup would make orbital a lot more interesting to use, especially in fights on gas giants, while retaining ground as most important.

Also, +1 on the make jigs cheaper, but also less income, so that gas bases have to spread really thin and far to gain benefits of massive income.

If it's all in vanilla... Then why do people only use 2 units?

We need more T1 variety, and not all roles have been filled. Not in the slightest.

Go look at the SupCom unit roster.

well, so far combat over jigs goes like this

Avengers vs Avengers and Anchors

I actually agree regarding the unit rosta; we need a greater diversity in both units and tactics that can be employed for space combat generally, and gas giant specifically

Something like long-range missile ships, a medium orbital bombardment unit, a slow-roaming defence structures; it goes on what could be done and their purpose

Jigs still need balance even with the above however; they are far too cheap for their benefits