How to balance a game

mered4 · October 23, 2014

cdrkf said: ↑

emraldis said: ↑

cdrkf said: ↑

emraldis said: ↑

well, considering removing their ability to shoot air, and then adding the stinger back shouldn't be enough to on it's own nerf them to hell, small debuffs in speed and a small increase in cost shouldn't push it too far as far as I can tell. Since making them a little slower won't nerf them much either, and making them a tad more expensive is also not that big of a change.
Click to expand...

That *may* be true, but these tweaks need to be small as currently tanks and dox aren't that far apart in effectiveness... I mean how much is 'small'?

A 'small' increase in cost could be 1 metal, 5 or maybe even 10 metal (resulting in 46, 50 or 55 metal / dox respectively). At what point does the cost make them even with tanks, at what point do they get less effective? Then you add in a speed reduction- well that will mean you loose *more dox* against tanks before you can get in range. If you reduce the speed by 1, and leave metal where it is that *might be sufficient* on it's own? Certainly you need to think very very carefully about proportions and how they interact.

Final thing re aa: if you remove AA from dox, then you need to build an AA bot instead. How much does that aa bot cost, how long is it's build time? Suddenly you may reduce your effective production rate of bots by 15% per factory due to the higher (?) cost of the AA bot (remember it has to be balanced against the spinner)- so now with no changes to dox at all you have *less bots per second* which would effectively buff tanks *or* you leave yourself totally vulnerable to air attacks.

All I'm saying is you'll need to really think very carefully about these changes, and making more than *1 change at a time* may be too much as you could wildly swing the balance and it's hard to pin down specifically what caused the change. Personally I'd sort out the changes to AA units first and make no other changes and figure out how that plays (as that in of itself gives tanks a small buff). If the dox is still op, then look at *either range or cost* but not both....
Click to expand...

I am well aware of the order in which changes should be made, I am working on a balance mod myself. That is also why I left actual numbers out, because I cannot currently tell you the answer. All I know, is that it seems to me that that would be the most effective and interesting option in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Well I'd be up for helping test, also probably most of promethean if you need testers?
Click to expand...

cdrkf said: ↑

emraldis said: ↑

cdrkf said: ↑

emraldis said: ↑

I am well aware of the order in which changes should be made, I am working on a balance mod myself. That is also why I left actual numbers out, because I cannot currently tell you the answer. All I know, is that it seems to me that that would be the most effective and interesting option in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Well I'd be up for helping test, also probably most of promethean if you need testers?
Click to expand...

Before I let anyone down, it's not a dox-balancing mod (I was once again referring to the balance process) but here is our mod page if you're interested, we're gonna release our first public build soon I feel.
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/wip-server-orbital-warfare-overhaul.62878/
Click to expand...

That's cool, I'm up for more orbital stuff
Click to expand...

So, when are you guys going to read the balance forums?
Because I made an amazing balance mod that Uber could implement RIGHT NOW by just changing the numbers. Everyone I've had test it had great things to say about it, and some bad things that I've addressed.

Emraldis is making an amazing mod too. My question is, do you want to help me test? The more we get on this mod, the better I can tell what is OP and what isn't - and make it better.

Another thing - DOX ARE OP.

It's not significant. It's just significant enough to make truly competitive play about nothing but Dox and bombers. I know this because I play against the top 5 or 6 players on a regular basis, and I win all the time against less skilled players with just dox, booms, and fighters. It's horrifyingly BORING.

I want to actually think when I play. Right now, I'm just microing out the wazoo. Not thinking.

Anyway. Enough ranting. Uber already knows how I feel about this stuff. I've been quite clear about it.

emraldis · October 23, 2014

mered4 said: ↑

cdrkf said: ↑

emraldis said: ↑

cdrkf said: ↑

That *may* be true, but these tweaks need to be small as currently tanks and dox aren't that far apart in effectiveness... I mean how much is 'small'?

A 'small' increase in cost could be 1 metal, 5 or maybe even 10 metal (resulting in 46, 50 or 55 metal / dox respectively). At what point does the cost make them even with tanks, at what point do they get less effective? Then you add in a speed reduction- well that will mean you loose *more dox* against tanks before you can get in range. If you reduce the speed by 1, and leave metal where it is that *might be sufficient* on it's own? Certainly you need to think very very carefully about proportions and how they interact.

Final thing re aa: if you remove AA from dox, then you need to build an AA bot instead. How much does that aa bot cost, how long is it's build time? Suddenly you may reduce your effective production rate of bots by 15% per factory due to the higher (?) cost of the AA bot (remember it has to be balanced against the spinner)- so now with no changes to dox at all you have *less bots per second* which would effectively buff tanks *or* you leave yourself totally vulnerable to air attacks.

All I'm saying is you'll need to really think very carefully about these changes, and making more than *1 change at a time* may be too much as you could wildly swing the balance and it's hard to pin down specifically what caused the change. Personally I'd sort out the changes to AA units first and make no other changes and figure out how that plays (as that in of itself gives tanks a small buff). If the dox is still op, then look at *either range or cost* but not both....
Click to expand...

I am well aware of the order in which changes should be made, I am working on a balance mod myself. That is also why I left actual numbers out, because I cannot currently tell you the answer. All I know, is that it seems to me that that would be the most effective and interesting option in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Well I'd be up for helping test, also probably most of promethean if you need testers?
Click to expand...

cdrkf said: ↑

emraldis said: ↑

cdrkf said: ↑

Well I'd be up for helping test, also probably most of promethean if you need testers?
Click to expand...

Before I let anyone down, it's not a dox-balancing mod (I was once again referring to the balance process) but here is our mod page if you're interested, we're gonna release our first public build soon I feel.
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/wip-server-orbital-warfare-overhaul.62878/
Click to expand...

That's cool, I'm up for more orbital stuff
Click to expand...

So, when are you guys going to read the balance forums?
Because I made an amazing balance mod that Uber could implement RIGHT NOW by just changing the numbers. Everyone I've had test it had great things to say about it, and some bad things that I've addressed.

Emraldis is making an amazing mod too. My question is, do you want to help me test? The more we get on this mod, the better I can tell what is OP and what isn't - and make it better.

Another thing - DOX ARE OP.

It's not significant. It's just significant enough to make truly competitive play about nothing but Dox and bombers. I know this because I play against the top 5 or 6 players on a regular basis, and I win all the time against less skilled players with just dox, booms, and fighters. It's horrifyingly BORING.

I want to actually think when I play. Right now, I'm just microing out the wazoo. Not thinking.

Anyway. Enough ranting. Uber already knows how I feel about this stuff. I've been quite clear about it.
Click to expand...

This is the kind of thing I was referencing with my complaints about dox. I would also love to help test out the mod when I have time after tomorrow.

How to balance a game

mered4 Post Master General

emraldis Post Master General

Share This Page

How to balance a game

mered4 Post Master General

emraldis Post Master General

Share This Page

Useful Searches