Promethean Clan-General Discussions/Announcments

I'm up for that- think I should be free

*depending on how many players turn up* we may want to make it a 2 stage thing- so a limited Swiss style (max 3 or 4 rounds) then elimination for the top players? I played in the 6 round Swiss tourney a while back and it makes it rather a long session (3 hours or so) which might not suit everyone...

You managed to play a 6 round swiss in 3 hours in PA? Wow... The last one I was in lasted like 7 hrs... You make a good point though.

1 v 1 single planets so fairly short games. I didn't do too badly

I'll be there. How about we plan on a tournament that would guarantee that we'd be finished before a ridiculously late hour. So a Swiss style with fewer rounds or what not sounds good to me. I presume we actually may not have that many who show up but I hope I am pleasantly surprised. In the future when we have more people it'd be fun to do an in clan 2 vs 2 league.

Cheers

Count me in! I'll be there.

I guess i'll honor you guys with my presence...

Hmm I just did a "not so scientific" test. I wanted to see which was a faster and more lucrative build order if the goal was to get 2 bot factories, 1 air factory, 1 power plant, and 2 fabbers which build radar first then go find mex. The timer was started as soon as the first bot factory construction and began and the timer ended when the first power plant was fully constructed.

Build order #1:

1. Commander builds bot factory.
2. Commander assists bot factory to produce two fabbers.
3. Commander builds 2nd bot factory, then an air factory, and finally a power plant.
4. The 2 fabbers build radar then build MEX around the base.

After 1 minute and 24 seconds, this build had 18 dox, 2 fabbers, 1 fighter, and the above structures.

Build order # 2:

1. Commander builds bot factory.
2. Commander builds 2nd bot factory, then an air factory, and finally a power plant.
3. The 2 fabbers build radar then build MEX around the base.

After 1 minute and 27 seconds, this build had 11 dox, 2 fabbers, 1 fighter, and the above structures.

To summarize, it appears that having the commander assist the first factory to get the first fabbers out quicker actually does help.

Any thoughts?

Whats your eco. I more than suspect that you can't keep it 100% at all times because of the fabber spam in #1 and no metal build in #2 Also i suggest putting 1 energy after youre second factory to ensure enough power. You can go and rush out 4 factory's with very limited fabber action but thats more of an all in rush strat if you ask me.

@rivii Just to make sure you understand both of the two scenarios. In both of the scenarios... as soon as the first fabber comes out, it immediately builds the first radar, then proceeds to build mex. When the 2nd fabber comes out, it immediately assists the first fabber. When these fabbers are doing their business, the commander is busy building the factories. I'll consider making a short video and/or just watching the eco in both situations.

I just did the first build again in a quick game. The metal and eco both are not at 100% however, neither completely run out from what I saw. So it's perfect.

@pilotrose have you checked out elodeas cookie cutter builds? The guy has a firm understanding of the eco.

This is the latest: https://forums.uberent.com/threads/cookie-cutter-builds-for-new-players.59452/

This is the bot-rush that won him the "King of the Planet"-title (somewhat outdated, but not eco-wise I think):


This is also a great forum-post from when cookie cutter #3 was out:
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/clopsey-tournament-this-sunday-gmt-1.60248/page-5#post-982619

I'm just feeding you with info now. Good luck finding the perfect build, tell me when you're done!

I think radar that soon is not neccesary, and can be a waste of eco.

Your enemy is probably not that close, and even if is, has even, or smaller army,depends of his start order. Dox are fast enough to react to near danger, and any danger at all is for fabbers. Solution? Send air fighter to scout enemy, have dox near engineers, later on use them somewhere else. Radar is waste of eco that soon. Important, send air fighter in the expansion direction first. Second air fighter protects against bombers attacking fabbers.

Radar can be build later on, after building 3-4 factory you can build one fabber to build radar, and later probably storage and energy.

Radar should be build more often and sooner on moon, not that often on closed off lava planet or earth with water, or mountains, because dox are fast enough to react to near danger in smaller radius.

Anyway, I would LOVE to see tests without radar in build order. Does assisting factory building engineers speed up eco?

I personally would always encourage radar quit early. I usually build radar with first fabber after a couple of metal extractors- it's simply not worth risking *forgetting it*. At 2 mins into the game? Probably not *that* critical... at 5 mins though, you can loose the game for not making radar imo.

Forgeting is not a part of equation in this case I think. If you make radar after 3-4 bot factory, you should build radar under 5 minutes of game. And after all,you have air to scout near base anyway.

Building radar with first fabber that builds mexes is dangerous in a way that if fabber is far from base because placement of mexes, radar can be easly destroyed by raiding.

Yeah I build quite a few radars though, usually 1 with each mex group (obviously map dependant). It's a habit I picked up after years of TA and TA:Spring gaming, knowing what's happening is key if you want to win and radar is fragile so they do get destroyed often. Also having one in the middle of your base is sub optimal- you want to see a group of units coming *before they get too close*

Well, if they are around the base, its great, because you can attack in any direction Jokes aside, if you have an eco, I think its perfectly fine. Only first minutes are so important, and later on if you dont stale its ok to build radars everywhere. Less wasted mass and energy, but it is important to not overact with it, because radar drain precious energy.

It could be also useful to use that radar mass into more air for scouting, because mostly moving stuff is better than buildings. You can scout with both, but air fighters shoot air.

Most effective build i have found:
-Commander builds bot factory and assists for first fab bot
-Fab bot assists commander wi

^I actually wrote a really long paragraph and for some reason it only sent the beginning, and i'm honestly too lazy to write it again. I wish you could delete posts.

What a tease.

I have to agree with @cdkrf here on the radar. See your radar as a triple barreled turret early game. It is Super duper important. Radar only gets gradually less important on bigger and bigger planets but on lets say planets with 500 radius (the radius most 1v1's take place) its a must have. you dont want your enemy even near your mex field. you can track down bombers and flanking dox. Yes they will be there in the first minute. if you dont have a radar you ask for your fabber or metal to be harassed. Intel is the utmost important thing in this game. yes you can scout with fighters but they only have limited time for a limited moment making it very easy to miss important stuff. If you know where your enemy is raiding you can send a small force to deal with it and instantly also send a counter attack to the place where he is weak. I'd also very much suggest building many forward radars with the ulimate goal to cover their base.

I think you are missing the point here, more or less, because it is about building radar first, not going to build mex first. I got it that it is important, and after 3-4 factory it will be there, but enemy cant do that much in that small amount of time. He just cannot. Only forces he will have will be amoung of doxes comparable to yours, or smaller. The only thing that soon into game that is in danger, are fabbers. If you have doxes, for first minute or two before that 3-4 factory, near fabbers, you are more or less safe. If you know by scouting where the enemy is, you just send them there later on.

Im not saying that you should not build radars at all, im saying that building it first can be a waste.